The comparison is apples to apples. There was nothing new in this year’s FotZ festival at all. Aside from a few scentences by the new mayor, there were no new items, no new content, no mechanical changes.
J-
[quote=Dudebro Pyro]Well, yes. Perhaps without the "constructive" part. If you do anything publicly, you are going to get feedback, and you will almost certainly get negative feedback. It’s something one has to learn to deal with, and one has to learn how to sort out useful feedback from griping. You will never, ever make everyone happy, and you will fail miserably if you try.
That said, to quote (paraphrase?) Mark Rosewater, if everyone likes your game and nobody loves it, it will fail. His example was the "rare poll," where potential card designs were circulated through the company. If one card gets half 10/10 and half 1/10 and a second gets all 7/10, which will be successful? The first. If you’re doing something right then people are going to be passionate about it, and some of those people are going to passionately hate it. That is, in its own way, a measure of success.[/quote]
Thanks for expounding upon my point. Additionally, FB deals with the vociferous minority quite well. I do find the complaints related to this year’s Hallowmas ironic given the comments about the FotZ. That speaks to what you’re saying as well.
J-
Hey guys, just a quick question, what good is the “widow’s progress” or any of the other ones, for that matter? i mean, i’ve got 2 clues from both the princess and the widow, but i can’t seem to discern what i should do with the progress.
[quote=Optimatum]I’m pretty sure the switch from Notability 5 to Notability 8 was because the former is absolutely trivial for endgame players. With max BDR, Notability 5 is entirely free, so whenever someone drew the Amanuensis card they could get a confession in only ten actions. Most people ground further to Notability 6 because it was faster than waiting to draw the Amanuensis.
If Failbetter had only increased the difficulty to Notability 6, I think people would have been fine with that. Most endgame players would have managed just fine with Notability 7, even if they didn’t enjoy it. But Notability 8 didn’t work well for anyone.[/quote]Indeed this is true, but…
[quote=Optimatum]I still think that Notability is a bad idea for a seasonal currency in the first place, though. Either it’s trivial for some people or impossible for others, and no matter what it locks the newest players out entirely. Maybe if confessions just needed raw MW it would work, but that has issues too…[/quote] As I suggested in the feedback thread, just increase the Notability cost after buying confession; start low and end up high (very high?). I find it fun to have a grind during seasonal events, but last year the pressure was too big!
But what if FBG did the best possible thing?
Completely remove Notability requirement just because many people went for PP, which is a horrible grind. Having to farm Notability to level X after PP may have been too much for some people.
What ever the case, I bow to FBG for attempting such new risks with seasonal events!
[quote=Barse]If you go and re-read the thread from last year’s Hallowmas, I think you’ll find out exactly why Failbetter thought they needed to fix Hallowmas this year. While I don’t necessarily agree with all of the design decisions that have been made this year, these decisions appear to have been made in direct response to the slew of community criticism that Hallowmas faced last year. Criticising Failbetter for changing festivals while at the same time, every year, insisting that the festival is busted and needs changing seems to me to be a little unfair.
As a community I think it is extremely important to maintain this kind of collective memory. If there had not been uproar over last year’s decisions, different decisions would not have been made this year, and that’s important to keep in mind. At the very least Failbetter need to be credited for hearing our criticisms and being willing to take new approaches in an attempt to address these criticisms, for trying all this new stuff in an attempt to improve an event which was received quite poorly.
I think it’s likely that next year Hallowmas will reappear in a yet-again different incarnation, precisely because of all of the comments in this thread here. And next year it’ll be important to remember, if we don’t like the changes that are made, that this time last year change was all that we were clamouring for. Failbetter are, when it matters, responsive to our feedback, and while I’m bordering on the insufferably pretentious this feels like a good time to remember where they got their name.
EDIT: I’m not saying we shouldn’t point out things we dislike; of course we should! And there are a number of things that I believe could’ve been done better this year, which I won’t go into because by and large they’ve been covered tenfold by other people. But it’s important to be fair even when we’re pointing out things that we think are unfair, and presenting the changes this year as uncalled for and unprompted (no matter how frustrating they may be - and I agree, some of the changes are frustrating) is, I think, unfair.
edited by Barse on 10/29/2018[/quote]
Agreed wholeheartedly.
At first, I was also rather dismayed at many of the choices they made for this year’s festival. Now I think that the intentions are good, if a bit mismanaged in their particulars. Chief of these is the inability to gain any Confession whatsoever, which makes the whole thing seem a bit static, even though an extremely nice bit of story and lore has been offered (and kudos to the whole team for that!).
With some luck, the 5 extra confessions and perhaps a small expenditure of Fate, you should be able to cover quite a lot of what the festival offers (e.g., the Mayor’s weapon plus the complete success in the story, or a couple companions). And the mechanics of Progress with the factions and their use for betrayal leads to a modicum of clever play options, allowing you to chain things around into a few more confessions. On the other hand, this wouldn’t have really been viable in the first place without the extra 5 confessions to offset the complete impossibility to obtain more without Fate.
So, for a bit of hopefully constructive feedback:
Ultimately, I think what has hurt this version of festival the most is a lack of any repeatable gameplay linked at least tangentially with the festival. Most of the time, we are left to do the same things as always, with an occasional action for collecting/turning in confessions interspersed in between. Hence, people feel nothing has actually been provided for them, even if that’s clearly not the case.
The late-game (and likely most enfranchised and vocal) players are hit the hardest by this, because for us every seasonal event is a welcome change from the repetitive long-term grinding for goats and/or cider once you reach other content boundaries.
For this reason, I believe seasonal events are at their best if they allow for some sort of repetitive activities to grind for seasonal story or resources. Best example of this have been the electoral Flash Lays, which allowed both beginning and late-game players to involve in a gameplay-based activity that provided direct feeling of engagement. It also gives late game players the incentive to go through carousels and actions which are otherwise no longer economically worthwhile for them, which currently is basically everything apart from selling children to large carnivores.
I cannot overstress how beneficial for the sense of immersion it would be to add a seasonal option for existing grinds more often than that. In this particular case, Archeological Expeditions and Investigation cases would both be extremely fitting for the (very nice) story provided. Flash Lays have already been used in such way with some success and could also be rather fitting if we imagine searching for clues in a secret archive/library/some such. Heck, even adding a new seasonal Cat-and-mouse option for the Implacable Detective’s Business Cards would be awesome. For each of these options, only two extra storylets would suffice, an opening and the successful resolution, which would make even the regular rounds between them fresh (at least for me, and I suspect a large number of others).
Another option would be an alternative use of existing resources. In this year’s Hallowmas, how cool it would have been to be able to use your existing connections with the Duchess and the Widow to gain progress with them? Certainly, it would be easy to provide an equivalent option for the Princess as well, e.g. using grindable resources such as Seeking/Investigating or even Fascinating. There is no shortage of qualities you simply generate while pursuing other goals but which you could also grind for, including A Fine Piece from the Poet-Laureate grind; Walking the Falling Cities and a number of others, possibly including the dreams.
Most of these options could be quite easily tailored so that an ordinary player could manage to get approximately the amount of Confessions from these the designers would consider adequate, for instance by making people to complete a number of these to gain progress before they could cash in for a Confession. As for some late-game outliers who might have collected A Fine Piece or Connections with the Duchess/the Widow in the hundreds, would it be such a big deal giving these individuals an edge by allowing them to turn these qualities into something useful?
While I personally don’t mind the idea, I can understand the critique considering use of Notability/MW in these situations.
Last year, I actually enjoyed immensely the hunt for more Notability, precisely because it was hard and gave me something to do frantically for the entire duration of the event, and even so I was kept in suspense almost all the festival as to whether I would be able to reach my goal. In the end, I chose to forego the Mayor’s weapon and went for the companions instead, and all it meant for me is that I had that much more respect for those who were able to go for both of these simultaneously, even if it wasn’t an option for me. But I see why that can lead to some griping, and perhaps would best be avoided for reasons said by others. (though I still believe it would work quite nicely as an alternative to other provided grinds, if the cost was lowered to 6 or perhaps 7).
Last but certainly not least, I wish to add my voice to those disappointed by the lack of new portraits for the companions in the past two years. I realize that we had been spoiled by the festival from 2016, but for me, these new pieces of art were literally the single most enjoyable and delightful thing about Hallowmas, ever. They provided infinitely more motivation for collecting and upgrading them all. As others have said, a simple background color change would go miles and miles to provide immersion as well as facilitating distinction of similar companions in your inventory. As it is, cluttering of the inventory actually provides a disincentive to collect the majority of them, and this no doubt adds to the discontentment people feel this year.
tl;dr:
- I believe providing seasonal options to grind for currency (progress/Confessions/…) using existing grinds (e.g. Expeditions, Flash Lays, Investigating/Seeking/Inspired/…) or by redeeming qualities/resources (e.g. Connected - Duchess/Widow, A Fine Piece or countless others) would be extremely useful and provide both new and old players with the feeling of meaningful, festival-related activities to pursue.
- I appreciate that the FBG team took into account last year’s outcry against the Notability grind. This year, though, perhaps the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Maybe simply setting the cost at 6/7 would have been optimal?
- Please, consider reintroducing new portraits for the upgraded companions. Even the simplest recolor would increase the enjoyability and immersion of the event multiple-fold for a significant number of players/collectors and reduce the feeling of inventory clutter that also draws negative reactions…
That said, I am still quite pleased with the festival and especially appreciate the new focus on lore and the personalities involved this year. Looking forward for the conclusion of the Rosers’ story. Cheers all,
Sir Reginald Monteroy
The comparison is apples to apples. There was nothing new in this year’s FotZ festival at all. Aside from a few scentences by the new mayor, there were no new items, no new content, no mechanical changes.
J-[/quote]
Hi Jason:
Here’s my point.
You seemed to argue that folks complained that nothing had changed in FotZ, but are now complaining that too much changed here.
I am stating that what folks complained about with FotZ was not that the NOTHING had changed, but that there were no new items, and there was next to nothing with the new mayor like there had been the year before. So the mechanics of FotZ had not changed–folks complained because there was no new material.
Now folks are not happy with the new mechanics of Hallowmas. That’s a different from what made them unhappy about this year’s FotZ. That’s why I called that particular point comparing apples to oranges.
Thanks–Tay1or
Exactly, the complaint wasn’t lack of change for the sake of change. It was the lack of anything to persue for players that already got the items last year. It’s not contradictory at all, both times players just asked for something/anything to do during the event. In one case because there was only something to do for new players, in the other case because the only thing there used to be was taken away completely.
edited by Monara on 10/30/2018
I, for one, am not complaining because there was change. That’s fine, even if you don’t agree with it. And I’m certainly glad that feedback is very often heard. I also loved the Roser’s story. But the rest -lack of gameplay, lack of any explanations, lack of ways to get confessions- still stands.
And again, festivals are what endgame players are waiting for.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 10/30/2018
[quote=Tay1or]Hi Jason:
Here’s my point.
You seemed to argue that folks complained that nothing had changed in FotZ, but are now complaining that too much changed here.
I am stating that what folks complained about with FotZ was not that the NOTHING had changed, but that there were no new items, and there was next to nothing with the new mayor like there had been the year before. So the mechanics of FotZ had not changed–folks complained because there was no new material.
Now folks are not happy with the new mechanics of Hallowmas. That’s a different from what made them unhappy about this year’s FotZ. That’s why I called that particular point comparing apples to oranges.
Thanks–Tay1or[/quote]
I understood your point correctly. There were many complaints about the FotZ festival having no changes whatsoever. Nothing was different from the previous year in any way - even including any new item or two. So it was more than a simple item add. It was that it was exactly the same in every way, with no incentive to participate.
Again, forum feedback, so it’s a minority. But that’s what we’re discussing here.
J-
Okay, I’m being forced to unlurk to add some pence.
Although I was surprised and briefly confused by this new Hallowmass, I’m going to join to say that this may well be the best-balanced Hallowmass so far. This is even though I received the maximum reward/enjoyed the hell out of the last mad social confession betrayal version.
The Scuttering Squad boosts are good enough that a new player can use ONE of them to max out that slot and avoid faction or tiger grinding for, potentially, years.
Everything else in the companions is flavor at best.
You can get the ‘max’ lore and the special Mayor prize if you’re endgame. So you get to see all the content and keep an overpowered weapon. Done. There’s no prize for getting all companions. If you value companions more, you walk away from the lance or the lore.
It’s a festival of CHOICES. And Fallen London has always emphasized the importance of making choices and not being able to have your cake and eaten it… ALL SHALL BE WELL.
Is there any downside to betraying any of the people involved, or does it just take up their progress? Like do you get a BETRAYED marker or something
Okay so It’s the 31st…why haven’t any of the Envoy options opened up yet?
Usually, updates and exceptional stories occur around 12 GMT.
So we should see something in about two and a half hours.
[color=#0066ff]The second week of Hallowmas begins! Do you know where the Rosers went? Visit the Envoy in Fallen London with clues from your investigations, and tell her what you know.[/color]
Warning to everyone: this is super bugged right now. When you get your choice of ending, it tells you you can go back to change progress on the person you want to unlock specific endings. However, backing out from this storylet to do so instantly teleports you to the conclusion location without having made a choice, locking you into a bugged ending referring to a nonexistent second person.
edited by Monara on 10/31/2018
Thank you both, Hannah and Monara! :)
If someone has more free time, I would love to see the full mechanic implications of this event explained!
Ι am waiting for the candles to reload, so far the writing is beautiful. I am following the injurious princess.
Easily the best part of this Hallowmas. And, of course:
This concludes the Mystery of the Rosers. but the story of Arbor and its Embassy will continue in the future.
The bug I mentioned above has been fixed. And support has been awesome as always and let me redo the ending.
[quote=Monara]Warning to everyone: this is super bugged right now. When you get your choice of ending, it tells you you can go back to change progress on the person you want to unlock specific endings. However, backing out from this storylet to do so instantly teleports you to the conclusion location without having made a choice, locking you into a bugged ending referring to a nonexistent second person.
edited by Monara on 10/31/2018[/quote]
[color=#0066ff]I believe this is all squared away now, but if you’re still experiencing any issues please email support@failbettergames.com - thanks![/color]