Waitwaitwait… Maybe’s Daughter is the Parabolan Panther’s niece? …Maybe’s Daughter has a lot of cousins.
[quote=Fretling]Wait, what do you mean about "all her weapon options back"? I still haven’t started a new captain yet.
Edit: Rereading, does that mean the starting steamer has all slot now or something?
edited by Fretling on 1/8/2015[/quote]
Every one of them, currently running around with three guns and all accessories
Yeah, that’s what I’m looking at, could be just me, but any game that starts with that as your primary premise isn’t a good feel. I’m doing okay on my first game out, but I do know where I’m going, I know where things are, and particularly when you look at it from a beginning player point of view, if it takes you ten games, each one saving your chart so you know where things are, before you start to play the game properly, then there’s something wrong with it, it would be better to give people the basic part of the chart, the areas that everyone know, the ones that don’t change position, and let them have that to begin with rather than having to have them die to get information that should be freely available.
[quote=MidnightVoyager]
I have been playing since the game has come out and having enough fuel and stuff doesn’t matter, I have never once found a way to recoup my costs without one-time stories. Explain how this works. Because for me, it doesn’t, no matter how much math I throw at it.[/quote]
The port reports aren’t there to make even money on the trip, that’ll never be the case unless you go around the sea with minimal crew and small engines, and even, unless you’ve got the high price port reports near you in the chart, it’ll still never pay off.
It’s a problem I’ve been having with Sunless in that if you know where to get the Searing Enigma’s and immediately equip for monster hunting, then you can do well (Lifebergs are worth a few hundred a piece, you’ve just got to find them in packs), but there’s no way to do well by just running trade routes, something that does need to change if the game is going to move away from the hunter killer method of playing. You can make money by trading silk out of saviours rocks back to london, but the distance between the two makes it all but worthless, and likewise most other things.
I have an idea, a traders manifesto of things that can be traded at various ports, so that beginners get the idea of what they should be carrying around to ports to get money off them, will make a new thread.
[quote=Rocket Heeled Jack][quote=Fretling]Wait, what do you mean about "all her weapon options back"? I still haven’t started a new captain yet.
Edit: Rereading, does that mean the starting steamer has all slot now or something?
edited by Fretling on 1/8/2015[/quote]
Every one of them, currently running around with three guns and all accessories[/quote]
You’ve lost me. My character ran out of fuel about 24 hours before Diamond came out, and I re-equipped his Scion using carry-over money. My steam-ship had the usual four slots before the update, and it still has them now. I mount one Hellthrasher (which may have been a waste of money now that its Iron bonus is gone) in the deck slot. I don’t see that I can mount any other weapons on the Ligaea-class tramp steamer.
Since the update, I can no longer successfully hunt Lifebergs. They’re too good at tracking me even with my lights off and they’re too fast with the halved reverse speed. I can barely evade them, and I’ve got a Boudicaea engine. The Pirate Steam-Pinnaces have had what seems like a massive boost to Mirrors (or maybe they mount a second gun now)and they now track me unerringly and Fire about twice as fast as I do. Good thing they only mount pop-guns. They have a tighter turning circle than the Ligaea for certain.
I can still make money, and the chart I got from my last character has been valuable. But the difficulty level of the game has increased significantly, and I have never successfully upgraded my ship on any character I’ve played. I have regularly been put off playing by the difficulty of the game. I lost my first successful character in a save-wipe. When we lost the ability to make money from Tomb-Colonist runs to Venderbight, I went through five characters before I had the successful one who ran out of fuel. The preceding four got almost nowhere. I am beginning to doubt I’ll ever manage to explore the South-east corner of my current map due to the lack of ports that sell fuel down that way. If I ever manage to run enough coffee to the Khanate, maybe that will change, but making profit on such a run seems unlikely. I don’t want to kill off a character just to spawn a map that’s potentially even worse.
The game is very pretty indeed now. I think the existing storylines are interesting, which is the most important part of a game for me. But I feel like the challenge bar is being set a bit too high. People talk about using Full Speed, but not only does that consume extra fuel it risks blowing up your engine. Fuel is already something I have to intensively manage. I would really like to see my 1500 echo deck gun make more of a difference. It costs thirty times purchase cost of the starting gun - what does it actually do for me ow that it doesn’t boost my Iron?
Iron is now THE stat to have high. Mirrors is nice, but Veils seems to make little difference. Hearts does very little that I can see. Pages is useful for story stuff, but also helps you get your other stats up by converting Fragments to Secrets more quickly. But nothing beats the ability to deal thirty damage in a single shot. One-shoting a Steam-Pinnace would mean I could reliably make the ‘safe’ run to Venderbight without hull damage at least some of the time. Because Mirrors only improves your rate of fire by fractions of a second, Iron is the way to go for combat. Now that hiding and running are harder and maneuvering has been devalued further, you’ve got to be able to deal maximum damage. Otherwise you’ll be sunk. This may be different in the higher-hull ships, I’ll grant, but I haven’t aimed for a Corvette because of Hold space concerns, so I’m waiting on either completing the Curator’s massive order of colours or saving up enough for a Maenid or a Caligo. And I still don’t know how much fuel and food the bigger ships will devour. Will I still be able to make profit on the longer runs?
I’m afraid I don’t see how to proceed, what strategy I should use. This update has made things harder.
Red honey runs are always very profitable Thomas Maund (assuming you are okay with it), and as a bonus the red honey takes up 0 hold space. Sit in dock waiting for SAY to refresh to run more than one honey at a time. Its a better deal than sphinxstone even. You can even take more than one shipment back to london at a time, the brass embassy pays a ton for it. My strategy has been 1. do quests until I had 200 spare echos, then runs sphinxstone. 2. Once I have 600 spare echos, start running red honey too. 3. Since sphinxstone runs out eventually, save up for mirror catch boxes from the khan’s shadow and start running sunlight. 4. You can sell these things in london for good profit at the risk* of confiscation (*unless you spend SAY at hunters keep before docking) or at venderbight and the isle of cats respectively without that risk. Isle of cats can be more profitable than london for sunlight starting around veils 80. 5. Once I’ve done sufficient honey and sunlight runs to get a merchant ship or better and several mirrorboxes, I start running a ton of mirrorboxes, like 42 mirror boxes turns a profit of 25,000 echos for like an investment of 20 fuel and 4 supplies every zailing loop from then on out. Its mad cash. SO MUCH CASH.
My point is, trading can be extremely profitable if you don’t mind dealing in illegal(and immoral)goods.
edited by NiteBrite on 1/9/2015
edited by NiteBrite on 1/9/2015
I disagree entirely. You can easily face all enemy pirate ships with a Ligeia fitted with the stock gun and engine. All you need to do is get the jump on them.
My tactic is fairly simple and 9 out of 10 times gets me through combating any ship with 0 damage sustained.
I maneuver to the edge of their spotting distance with lights out. Wait until they start turning away from me and then i go forward straight at them. When they begin turning because they spotted me or because they randomly chose to i keep going straight for them. By the time they have a solution ready i am already on their stern. From then on it’s just a matter of turning hard in the same direction as them and alternating speed in order to stay on their stern.
Sometimes they might try switching to reverse to force you to pass them but you learn to anticipate this and it’s easy to counter if you’ve learned how to stay behind them with slow speed.
I guess I’ll just have to wait for my next captain to see for myself.
NiteBrite, I don’t think that anyone ought to be required to rely on sitting in port waiting for SAY to refresh. I’ve definitely done it before, but it feels exploity/not the way the game’s meant to be played, and if it comes to NEEDING to do that regularly to get by (whether for money or safety), something has gone wrong.
Jack, at least with a captain started prior to this update, I was able to accumulate wealth without firing a single shot, and Strategic Information/port reports were my bread and butter. Only when it became necessary to acquire a Fluke-Core, which I could not see was obtainable by any other means, did I reluctantly spend some of that wealth on thoroughly equipping myself for combat and head down to Fathomking’s Hold for my first actual battle.
I finally got around to downloading Diamond today and I must say that everything I have seen so far is absolutely beautiful.
Running around in a Dreadnought with high Iron and mirrors, blue scintillack and the Caminus Yard guns combat is relatively unchanged though each shot causes less damage than before but being able to fire off two shots straight away counteracts that slightly.
I haven’t tried the new officer stories or seen all the new places yet but I am looking forward to doing so.
I think I will take one final trip and see everything with this captain and then start a new legacy game. I really don’t fancy starting without the money, stats and other benefits of a legacy.
Running around in a tramp steamer is a pain, but Strategic Information + running Sphinxstone and possibly red honey + collecting the easiest items for the Curator and the Principles quests + supplying the Merchant Venturer (unless you get a really unlucky pair of requirements) should get you upgraded into a merchant cruiser without needing to do much fighting. If you’re still having trouble getting to the merchant cruiser, accumulate as much money as you can, acquire a Scion, retire (or suicide if you prefer to go out in a blaze of glory), and choose the legacies that will let you retain all your cash. Then do the early-game moneymakers again. Once you’re into at least a merchant cruiser, life will be easier.
I haven’t had many problems managing fuel in either the merchant cruiser or the frigate. With the merchant cruiser, leaving London with 30 fuel will get you most places you want to go. The frigate takes a little more care, but on most maps, you should be able to refuel at Khan’s Shadow or Apis Meet if you’re heading for the southeast corner of the map. You can also trade Zee-stories at the Fathomking’s Court (equal chance of getting fuel or supplies, but you can wait for SAY and try again, or throw the supplies in the boiler if you’re desperate.)
And once you’re out of that crappy starting ship, you can use Full Speed much more freely unless you’re already significantly damaged, because even the highest possible amounts of hull damage from an explosion won’t sink you. It does use more fuel, but it also makes it more feasible to run without lights, since you won’t be spending as much time racking up terror.
After having run with the Frigate for a few days now – having initially bought it so I could do the Venturer’s Venture and also handle the Lorn-Fluke shortly afterward – I agree that 30 should be fine for most runs. I always get paranoid and refuel/resupply halfway through, but then I get back to London with like 12-15 extra units of fuel and supplies, each, so I figure the resupplying is unnecessary.
I don’t ever use Full Speed, though – I’m only crewed to 14 and don’t want to risk it. There’s enough places where I know I can reduce Terror that I’m not super worried about it, and if you have a family, Terror becomes basically a non-issue.
(Though I guess not having a family allows me to laugh bitterly when random strangers try to curse me.)
Maybe’s Rival also bugged for me. Not appearing in the officer selection. Also, anyone got the Tardy Lamp Lighter from Varchas? He seems to have the same problem (appears in Legacies for preserved officer but not in the current game)
[quote=Thomas Maund]You’ve lost me. My character ran out of fuel about 24 hours before Diamond came out, and I re-equipped his Scion using carry-over money. My steam-ship had the usual four slots before the update, and it still has them now. I mount one Hellthrasher (which may have been a waste of money now that its Iron bonus is gone) in the deck slot. I don’t see that I can mount any other weapons on the Ligaea-class tramp steamer.
[/quote]
Interesting, I picked up a Forward gun by accident and rather than move the gun from the hold to the slot, I clicked on "Fit gun to slot" and it did, did the same with the aft gun and it fitted also…
Bug on my game? Maybe, but it makes a hell of a difference towards playing the game when you’re just starting out and can mount two guns.
I still hold that without the knowledge of an experienced captain, there’s going to be a lot of frustration before the game goes anywhere, and that’s not a good thing.
Ah, no I should have explained better. You don’t -need- to SAY camp, running red honey and mirrorboxes is profitable even if you do just one at a time. And there are alternative sale locations other than london that give decent money too so its not required for safety either. Also there are ways to get around the excise men with stats or bribes or even admiralty’s favor farming from places such as the shepards island.
Or you know, the excise men always alternate which illicit goods they are looking for in a very predictable pattern. Honey and souls or literature and sunlight. Its always one check then the other and it never seems to change, so you could in theory just alternate your crimes to fit their predictable search patterns and never get caught that way.
I was just suggesting it was far more profitable/convenient to do these things with SAY manipulation. Why sail to a far off island twice when you can sit there for two say and save the fuel of a round trip? Its not necessary, I mean you still make ridiculous profits, but 6 fuel saved per waiting vs sailing adds up over time.
One small element of Diamond that makes me happy; cue Sinatra…
Huh. I encountered something similarly odd trying to get to Aestival the first time: every time I entered from the West the game reacted as if I had sailed off the East edge of the world and sent me to Irem. But if I instead came in from the north or south everything was fine. Similar bug?
Not actually. It will bring you down close to 1 Hull pretty rapidly - so no point in repairing really - but never actually destroy you. of course, this means that you have to choose between speed and fighting things; but honestly I would find it very hard to play the game without the ability to increase speed to something other than tedious :-).
I don’t think Thomas was talking about being destroyed. Taking severe hull and crew damage is enough of a disincentive, especially if you usually sail with a light crew to cut down on food costs. Can you imagine trying to get from the Elder Continent back to London on speed 1 only due to having blown up two zailors and getting put under 50% crew?
shudder
edited by Fretling on 1/9/2015
So my chief concerns are:
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balance between stats – is iron really that much better than hearts or veils?
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Does the game now significantly favour the more unethical captains? I.E. Smugglers who willing abduct victims for red honey, people who illegally sell sunlight, or engage in cannibalism to complete the curator quest?
And finally, 3) Has this new balance been tested by ANY new players (how have NOT been scions, or new captains controlled by experienced players)? I ask because it’s been eons for some of us and even my "fresh start" captain had a number of problems that would have been a serious turnoff if I hadn’t the experience (and the CLEAR understanding of how the game works as a rogue-like). Personally, I think the game needs to emphasize that you will get killed at times and your family line will go on – but a lot of people I’ve casually mentioned the game to seem to get far more frustrated than people I live close to who I can literally walk through and explain how dying and restarting can actually be a good thing.
Currently, it appears this game is wonderful for established players but frustrating for new ones; I feel the game needs to "hype" the concept of brazen, unbridled exploration, followed by a few early demises, lucky breaks, and eventually in-depth adventure stories.
[li]
edited by SouthSea Rutherby on 1/9/2015[/li][li]
edited by SouthSea Rutherby on 1/9/2015
I wouldn’t equate “illegal” and “unethical”. Other than that, it seems so. The more bloodthirsty and ruthless, the better. But I’m not sure that’s entirely new. Look at the Genial Magician, f’rex. And the Bruiser has been a source of profit for a while now.