We need new end-level appropriate contents.

[color=rgb(0, 153, 255)]We need new end-level appropriate storylets/cards/contents that are challenging and rewarding.[/color]
[/color]( With recent improvements, some of these articles no longer applies (Hooray!), and I marked changed parts with[color=#ff9900] Soft Tiger-orange.[/color] )

  • Even before recent stat cap increase, lots of options in Fallen London are/were inappropriate and outdated for most players. [color=#ff9933]While several[/color][color=#ff6633] [/color]options got better, but the core problems are still out there. And in most case, instead of getting better, they simply became harder for everyone.[/li][li]For example, highest level ranges of current “opportunity” cards are intended for those at [color=#ffffff]100~105 stat range[/color], leading to inappropriate rewards. [color=#ff9933]Most of them are not very useful[/color] to most Fallen Londoners in 150~165 stat range, and I’m not even talking about new and better equipment. [color=#ff9933]And some cards have very wierd stat req, like caligula’s coffee house.[/color][/li][li]In contrast, ‘Affair of box’ storylet can be done anytime, gives out 164.29 ~ 177 penny per action and its rewards are otherwise uncommon (plaques, candles).[/li][/ul][ul][li]Speaking of uncommon type of rewards, [color=#ffff00]we need more diverse reward items, too[/color][color=rgb(255, 153, 0)] [/color]– most options simply hands out vendor trash like [color=#ff9933]pearls [/color]and brass, while requirement/demand for other uncommon items are very high. [color=#ccffff]I still shudder when I remember the experience of gathering Scarbs and maniac prayer for PoSI.[/color] [/li][li]Currently, only reliable source for many essential items are &quotUnfinished businesses&quot series of storylet. These are good for fresh PoSI, but for most end-level players, it’s very frustrating. [color=#9966ff]Unless these junks get useful or get conversation options (like Stage 3 conversation), we need more options and diversity on item gain.[/color][/li][li]And even if we ignore these issues, most opportunity cards (cheesemonger no more,consideration for services rendered, fourth city rags, etc) are really useless. It would be nice to see such cards getting useful[color=#ff9933], as several new changes made me squee and improved Gaming experience for me. [/color][/li][li]( Or at least providing option to block certain unwanted cards. It might be - [color=#ff9933]maybe even should be-[/color] expensive and time-consuming, but it will provide some content like lodgings. [color=#ff9933]Who wouldn’t want a Badass Bouncer for their expensive and fancy house! [/color])

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)] Still, there are several refreshing improvements.[/color]

  • Affair of box is great example of advanced content for end-gamers, and it is widely considered as best option so far [color=#ff9933]and some updated cards provides even better option nowdays.[/color][/li][li]Connection exchange of Flit is another nice example - Before the change, it was waste of connection as even ‘Unfinished businesses’ can provide similar items without hefty connection drop. After the update, this became valuable option that can provide good amount of basic resource materials, making it best usage for connections (It would have been better if it remained as storylet option, though).[/li][li][color=#ff9933]Another good development are new options to utilize high stat by basing reward was based on shadowy stat, which are not only good for end-gamers but also balanced for beginners. [/color][/li][li]Also,several things that I was bothered about got fixed – mainly, inconstancy among value of different items.

edited by Tommy Wi on 9/16/2013

There are a number of opportunity cards I routinely discard since all my stats are capped at 165+ (with the various item bonuses).

*Cheesemonger no more
*Dream of (whatever)
*Return to the Palace Cellars
*Commotion in the square of lofty words (I have like 200+ of all the second chances that I never use for anything)
*Reeducating Lyme
*Past Benefactor
*Soft Heated Widdow
*Any of them with the Green Plant
*Honey Sipping Jewel Thief
*Many of the ones were you can increase connections

And there’s a lot more. Many of them were valuable when I was back grinding around 100, but now…

And yes, some of those can benefit others, such as Commotion and Passing the cat, and if I know somoene needs them I will send them, but most often, I just hit discard. The only ones I routinely use are ones that give me money (in something like 120 pence or more equivelent) or that are useful for the storyline I am on now (like the Lens, Head and Mandrake). But most of the stuff is just not of any use to me anymore, and I can’t get rid of them, if I could sell my second chances (which I never use now) I might collect them. But when every challenge is Straightforward at 97% or higher chance of success, they are useless.

I’d really just like to see a scaling rewards system. Not sure it is reasonable to expect after the fact, but would have solved the storylet longevity issue.

Every option roughly equal for grinding purposes. Content and different reward options making the difference between them.

Note: Soft Hearted Widow provides a chance to attack or change your form for K&C Players. A very nice addition and something I hope we see more of.

[quote=Joy Phillip]There are a number of opportunity cards I routinely discard since all my stats are capped at 165+ (with the various item bonuses).

*Cheesemonger no more
*Dream of (whatever)
*Return to the Palace Cellars
*Commotion in the square of lofty words (I have like 200+ of all the second chances that I never use for anything)
*Reeducating Lyme
*Past Benefactor

*Any of them with the Green Plant
*Honey Sipping Jewel Thief
*Many of the ones were you can increase connections

And there’s a lot more. Many of them were valuable when I was back grinding around 100, but now…[/quote]

Hmm. Maybe we should compose list of unwanted card for sake of detail, discussions and other stuff.
maybe something like:

[color=#ffffff]* [/color]color=#ff9900[/color] : [color=#ff99cc]( reason why they are useless* + proof )[/color] [color=#ffff00]( > ending with possible solutions to make it better + [Personal suggestions])[/color]
[color=#ff99cc]* Don’t list &quotit’s wasting card deck opportunity[/color][color=#ff99cc]&quot as reason. [/color][color=rgb(255, 153, 204)]The fact that they are listed here already proves it.[/color]


  • Rat Melancholy : Both options are outclassed for people who finished [color=#ffffff]Plaster Face story [/color]( 50 x Greyfields 1882/50 x Cryptic Clue = both option pay 100 echo, same with unfinished business ), and there are very real danger of accidentally wasting 10~30 fate.
    [color=#ffff00]> Solutions:[/color]
  • [color=#ffffff]1.[/color] Increase reward. [/li][li][color=#ffff99][ Greyfields are uncommon, so tweaking number will be nice enough ] [/color][/li][li][color=#ffffff]2.[/color] Extend content boundary of watchmaker’s daughter storylet, thus giving more options for albino rat’s usefulness. [/li][li][color=rgb(255, 255, 153)][ I’m hoping that I can encourage her to create delightful mechanical items - as added benefit, it will provide use for various vendor-trash [/color][color=rgb(255, 255, 153)] [/color][color=rgb(255, 255, 153)]items like [/color][color=rgb(255, 255, 153)]brass slivers or jewels, and prospect of DIY ratwork items or Whirring Contraption is so fascinating. ][/color][/li][li][color=#ffffff]3.[/color] Make &quotSympathetic about Ratly Concerns&quot quality relevant to something. [/li][li][color=rgb(255, 255, 153)][ requirement for aforementioned crafting[/color] [color=rgb(255, 255, 153)]and/or provide better option/story/price-reduction for Rattus Faber companions ][/color]

[color=#ffffff]How do you think?[/color]

That’s a good idea. We’ll have to start tabulating all the opportunity cards that you get at 120 and above to do this right. If we could present it as a codified Wiki or something for Alexis to look at and possibly implement, that’d be fantastic.

Maybe also make it so that at some levels you get what is already there, and as you increase in level, while that is still an option, other storylets open up on the card to continue with other stories.

I do the Albino rat still simply because I hope to go to a funeral with the rats at some point, and I’m hoping the Daughter will come back at some point.

This is just what I threw together tonight in about two hours while playing and surfing/watching TV. Please understand Failbetter, I’m not saying these are bad, but they are not ones that get used when the stats are above 120, and in some cases like Melancholy, Someone is Coming, and so on, it’s not useful at high levels.

The Heron Tower

Hunt down a huge lizard
Dangerous is increasing…
You’ve gained 1 x Certifiable Scrap

Peril and pyjamas
Dangerous is increasing…
Connected: Society is increasing…
You’ve gained 1 x Certifiable Scrap

Both options only give you 1 Certifiable Scrap. With the other building cards, on the top buildings (Bazaar, Western Tower and Bethlehem) you get either 3 or 4 Certifiable Scrap per action. If you have already maxed out your stats, the gain of Dangerous is useless, but even then it’s only 1 CP when it’s a Straightforward challenge. At level 120+, 1 CP for Dangerous is not significant enough to worry about.

With the Connected: Society it could be useful, if you are grinding for connections. But 30 CP is only going to give a +1 or +2 at this level unless your connections are very low.

What could be better:
This is really a card for someone who is lower, around 50-70 in their stats. Removing it from the Opportunity Deck once someone gets to level 100 would be much better.
The Peril option could be made more relevant by gaining another contact in Society, or gaining a new quality like &quotNoteriety&quot which will give a boost to Connected: Society challenges.

Riding your Velocipede

The velocipede courier
You’ve gained 70 x Cryptic Clue
Connected: The Great Game is increasing… (~5 CP) (up to a level of 15)

Sell off an excess velocipede
You’ve lost 1 x Velocipede
You’ve gained 5000 x Nevercold Brass Sliver

The Messenger option in Laydybones Road is simply an increase in the storyline and this one gives you Cryptic Clues, and this is pretty much the same thing just with an increase in Connected: The Great Game. The money is nice in the first option and it is about equal to what can be had in many other places in other ways, but that’s only one card. And let’s be honest? How many people have two or more Velocipedes?

It might be nice to sell off the one Velocipede you have since you also have the Ratwork Velocipede. Once you have that, I would think that it could be substituted for the normal Velocipede in all situations, when right now all you can do is one card for the Ratwork.

Out and About on your Ratwork Velocipede

Bathe in admiration
(This reward is not worth it when you are at 120+ stats)
Race a lieutenant-colonel of lancers

Fate locked content, too bad because both of these options are just one of those things that you can skip.
Making it better? As I said, substitution for the Velocipede allowing you to sell the first one and since this gives you bonuses to stats, it would be much better to use IMO.

A chance encounter with an old friend…

Why not? You can afford it.
(loses you 40 jade and gives you some bump in stats that don’t matter)

Absolutely. But you’ll take payment in kind.
(loses you 40 jade and you gain 10 Cryptic Clues, a net loss of 20 pence and gains in stats that don’t matter)

‘Patron’, is it?
(gives you nothing but stat increases that don’t matter, and a Scandal increase)

This is a loser card all around. Melancholy, Forceful, Hedonist all don’t get used at all by anything that I’ve seen, and Someone is Coming is only one of those occasional things that might give you something that you can sell. There’s no story effect at all, no way to turn this person into an asset, it’s a leech card, designed to suck items and actions from the player.

The only way this could be a good card is if it were redesigned from the beginning to be a Spouse or a springboard for another storyline. Those aside, you hit &quotdiscard&quot when it shows at level 70+ for the stats.

Remember the Honey-sipping Jewel Thief?

(If you have a spouse like I already do the only option you get is)
Ignore him
(This gives you 1 Flawed Diamond.)

Honestly, if I were designing a useless card, I think this would be it. It takes up a slot in your opportunity deck, it’s really common and it’s a card that is absolutely useless if you have a Spouse already. The first three times I ignored him you would think he would get the hint. But no. He keeps coming back, I get him at least once in every five cards. The &quotreward&quot isn’t even anything that is useful, it’s a Flawed Diamond worth 12 pence. So one slot in the deck, and one action (both costing 10 minutes of your life each) for 12 pence.

I can see it being useful if you switch spouses over and over, and it may be really useful if you have him as a spouse itself, but for any other use, I just discard. If it could be redone to not show up if Spouse = 1, then it may be okay.

Before people create an anecdotal encyclopedia of “useless cards” we should all realize that FB has actual data saying which cards are routinely discarded at what levels. On top of that, there has already been announcements of many changes still to be made once the platform is in place. While the hearts are in the right place, I wouldn’t want people to put hours into something like this without this understanding.

I do understand that, and I really want to help here. But there IS a problem with some of these cards. Why keep getting the card you get when you have a home in the marshes? I think you maybe get 4 Cryptic Clues and 1 extra that’s only one step up. That’s like 15 pence of items and bumps for skills that are probably maxed out.

I’m hoping that the staff takes this as it is intended, something to call their attention to it, not to denegrate their work. They have a lot to keep track of, and they may not know, right off the top of their head that a card that is supposed to stop showing up at level 40 keeps going till stat max.

color=#009900 Basically, what Theus said. Anecdotal feedback chatter is often useful, but we have a bird’s-eye view of player behaviour through the database anyway, so this sort of subjective giant information dump - though I appreciate the intention! - is just too much, too specific for us to do much with.[/color]
color=#009900 We do have a long list at this end of cards that are eventually due to get overhauled and made more universally interesting, and there’s an ongoing economy rework in the background - but the priority will never be to ensure that a player at any given stat level gets totally optimal pence per action, only that there are a reasonable number of decently profitable alternatives.[/color][color=#009900]
color=#009900 if something looks like a painfully obvious solution, then the three most likely reasons we haven’t implemented it are[/color]
color=#009900 there’s a non-obvious reason why we’d prefer not to[/color]
color=#009900 there are a lot of things ahead of it on the to-do list (including non-FL projects)[/color]
color=rgb(0, 153, 0) we haven’t thought of it[/color]
[color=#009900]honestly, it’s generally not (c). :-)[/color][li]
edited by Alexis on 6/19/2013

Yes Daddy. sits down with a sore bottom :-)

[color=#009900]Sorry, that might have sounded grumpier than I intended. I do appreciate the input from you and Tommy, and it is always worth flagging up especially egregious issues in case they’ve dropped off the radar - that’s what I mean by anecdotal chat. But I don’t need any more big lists - I have enough of my own.[/color]

Thank you for responding! It’s nice to know that this is not &quot(c)&quot kind of problem. Also, I really appreciate current developments - not only they are profitable, lots of things finally make sense in-game. I love smalll details that make every item special (like maniac’s prayer and appalling secret), I love numerous stories of fallen london, etc etc , so I’m very happy to behold what I view as [color=#ffff00]The second grand overhaul of Echo Bazaar!* [/color]
[color=#ffffff]The point is, keep up the &quotgood fight&quot against outdated contents.[/color]
[color=#ffff00]*[/color] I really have to say it in huge yellow bold. Stuff like &quotSecond overhaul&quot just screams hope and change.[li]
edited by Tommy Wi on 6/19/2013

No, I understood Alexis. Really. Poking fun at the perception that you are the Big Daddy here and basically GOD… well, you get it. And I felt like being a little girl for a bit.

As long as it’s understood that it’s meant to help, not as a criticism. Much like all my other comments around here in the same vein.

I really AM enjoying the story and the game. Truly. It’s given me many many hours of diversion and allowed me to do a lot of roleplaying that I used to do on Gaia Online with Bleach there, since I really miss my AD&D games and all that roleplaying from the 80’s and 90’s. So it’s a good outlet. Heck, if it wasn’t, i wouldn’t be buying so much NEX.

Besides, when my daughter signed me up for this, didn’t tell me, and then I sign in and everything is already picked for me, you and your staff were great at giving me several hundreds of Nexs worth’s of changes to allow me to play MY character, not my daughter’s. (she was testing out other options for some of the game mechanics and so I had a lot of options picked for me…). So, yall been good for me, trying to return it. (Besides I want the pet that is given out for pointing out game mechanics and bugs…)


I’m not really bothered by the presence of some cards in my deck that I never want to play. If there weren’t any I’d take much longer to get through storylets, and they give rise to the enjoyable deck management mini-game. But since you’ve suggested we flag egregious issues, I think it’s unfortunate that married folk can get stuck with those super common Thief/Model courtship cards. It would be great if they could only be drawn by uncommitted Londoners.

I temporarily divorced my Spouse solely to cast the Jewel Thief into the back alleys of the Sidestreets, where he will remain forever unless an option comes up that lets me throw him into a volcano.
The other cards I don’t really mind overmuch (apart from maybe the Cheesemonger and past benefactor). The plant you can at least remove from your deck entirely once you hit 19 Attending, but that takes a reaaally long time. The Widow is a pretty ok source of Stolen Kisses and Making Waves but she’s really damn useful for K&C players so.
just, really, to hell with the jewel thief, that’s my point

Look like this post is turning into demand for stout bouncer. Not that I have any problem with that (Ō‿Ō), but do remember that we are talking about lots of diverse issues here.
[color=#009999]Something like more use (and idea recommendation) for currently useless items[/color][color=#ff9966],[/color][color=#00ccff] Zee being too soft for seal-loving badass british sailors[/color][color=#ffffcc], [/color][color=#ffccff]option to do several same actions in one go for sake of convenience and well-being of our wrist[/color][color=#ffffff],[/color] [color=#ffff99]more user-friendly Journal/inbox/storylet/CP-viewing system[/color][color=#ffffcc],[/color] [color=#ccff99]babble babble, this and that.[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Shameless self-promotion here [/color][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]:U[/color]

edited by Tommy Wi on 6/19/2013

Hmm… journal and inbox issues don’t seem related to end-game content to me. As for items, how many are egregiously useless? It’s true that many are of limited use to a veteran with a herd of Overgoats, but they may be useful by virtue of their affordability, or for fairly high-level players who want to tune their stats to get low-risk challenges. And some people may just want a Tigress because well, who wouldn’t want a Tigress, even if sentient rats are a good deal more useful?

The only item which comes to mind for me is the Ratwork Derringer, which is only 20 echoes cheaper than the Sharpshooter’s Rifle but a good deal less Dangerous. I think it could do with a price tweak or a small boost to some other stat.

Regarding the Lodgings cards, maybe a way to sell your surplus real estate? I mean, London is London is London, when has the housing market ever not been over-heated?

That wouldn’t actually change things. You’d just keep getting the cards to buy the Lodgings in the first place.[li]

[color=#009900]The Thief and Model are a good example of both (b) and of the utility of anecdotal feedback chatter. The Banish Forever option was waiting on a particular quality which was attached to a particular content update - but I forgot to add the relevant branches. Those stony-hearted souls who want to stop flirting forever can now do so decisively. Cheers all.[/color][li]