The Revolution: Aye or Nay?

Fallen London
1

I thought it may be a good idea to split the little debate (such as it was) that happened here off into its own thread, as I think it is an interesting question. The Revolutionaries - do they have a point?

On one hand, they’re obviously not going for a civil, genteel sort of Velvet Revolution. Some of their more violent methods are, at best, questionable. Some of this is understandable, being that death is strange in the Neath; stabbing someone in the heart is far less drastic down here than on the Surface. However, the Revolutionaries cause a lot of property damage, and they’re not above permanently killing people - arguably innocent people, such as [color=rgb(255, 255, 255)]Clay Men used as strikebreakers [/color]and [color=rgb(255, 255, 255)]financiers governing some kind of currency exchange mechanism with the Surface[/color][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)].[/color]

On the other hand, they’re also the only faction that tries to do something about the absolutely brutal class divide. (Charity on part of the Church or particularly virtuous individuals doesn’t work on a scale like this. And one could argue that one should never have to recourse to charity.) The Victorian society of Fallen London has its virtues, but equality, workers’ rights and a fair income distribution are not among them. Mr Fires’ response to strikers is to have them beaten up - and, yes, killed - by the Constables. There’s no real way to adress those grievances, as the Masters control both economy and politics and have their own private military in form of the Neddy Men.

On the other other hand*, the Neath has a few… special properties that complicate the matter, such as the [color=rgb(255, 255, 255)]appetites of the Bazaar [/color]and [color=rgb(255, 255, 255)]the apparantly fundamentally malleable nature of reality in the Neath[/color][color=rgb(0, 0, 0)].[/color] The Masters know how to deal with this, presumbably, and the Iron Republic does not inspire confidence regarding the Revolutionaries’ ability - although you could blame Hell for the latter. But then again, who says the Masters give a d–n about London’s well-being? They have their own agenda, presumbably.

So… what do you think? I believe the Revolutionaries deserve support, on balance, simply because the status quo is so awful, but I’d love to hear about my fellow citizens’ opinions. Revolutionaries? Masters? Neither? Don’t worry, after the Revolution, you probably won’t be visited by a firing squad if you express dissent.

  • Not to be confused with the original hand.
2

The status quo is awful, additionally there is a reason the other cities have only remnants of their former glory scattered about. However the Revolutionaries, for all their good intentions are powerless brutes in this battle. Without a true leading intellect who understands the mysteries of the neath they will die, slowly but surely. We either need to side with a player who is not only capable but intelligent, or pick a capable player and lead them into glory. The way this game works it would seem that it would be easier to lead than merely help. For no matter how great one is with a sword or knife in the dark, you won’t be able to turn the tide, we need to be able to supply our side with intelligence and win over followers behind our banner. A revolution can be achieved but we need a face to our cause, we need an intellect, we need inspiration. Viva la Revolution! Let’s get those printers pressing dissenting thoughts.

That said, I myself am a player of the game, for the mysteries and myself. I am a scholar who seeks knowledge so I may survive the coming storm, the silence is so overwhelming it may destroy what’s left of me.

3

I find this one of the most interesting parts of era. 19th century politics are far more fascinating than 21st century politics.

The Neath’s problems are not special. All complex systems have to be fed. This does not necessitate absolutism.
The other thing to remember is that the Revolutionaries are not just rebelling against the Masters, but all forms of repression and power. Nor are they all united in belief, being Anarchists, Nihilists, Communists, Populists, Socialists and Republicans(those wishing a more representative government rather than monarchy, not the American political party.)

I believe they clearly have a point and equality is something to strive for, but violence is the least effective way to accomplish this goal. But it is the most satisfying.
This is likely why the Revolutionaries of Fallen London will likely see little change to the establishment, but that isn’t really the point, is it? The point is rebellion. The act of rebelling is a way to cope with the madness and melancholy of the Neath. Some drink, other gamble and some blow up meetings of financiers. We all have to blow of a little stem now and again.

4

Ah, but therein lies the problem, doesn’t it? It’s been hinted that the Bazaar is more than a complex economic system. Perhaps it’s entirely possible for an elected government consisting of humans to still its appetite, perhaps not. Introducing metaphysical agents into a political problem is a very good way to get started on one’s Laudanum addiction.

These are very true. As it is right now, the Revolutionaries aren’t getting much done. My question was more about a theoretical scenario in which they manage to rally behind a single faction - or person - for a sufficiently long time, perhaps with support from the Surface. (All those French/American/1848 rebellions did happen, after all.) As long as they continue to pull in a hundred directions at once, they provide little more than another exciting way to die in London.
edited by Cedric Appleby on 7/7/2012

5

Hm. A 500-Persuasive check where you try to convince the Masters that love sprouts more easily when people aren’t overworked, starving and generally in poverty?

A long shot… but it might work. Except if it ends up not working, the Master will never allow anyone to live a decent life in future cities.

6

I believe the revolutionaries have a point, but I do not side with their methods. Nor all of their end goals. I find it’s best to take a middle of the line approach: Use the revolutionaries to acquire knowledge, but stay on the good side of the law and the masters. By straddling the line, you can be in a position to see the whole picture. Once you know the truth, then you may make a decision.

7

I’m going with nay. The Bazaar has too many secrets. Even the most learned of us cannot hope to understand it. The Masters are probably the only one who can! So if they are overthrown, who will know how to control the Bazaar? Who will know what secrets lie in the heart of the Bazaar?

8

[quote=Byron Man]Hm. A 500-Persuasive check where you try to convince the Masters that love sprouts more easily when people aren’t overworked, starving and generally in poverty?

A long shot… but it might work. Except if it ends up not working, the Master will never allow anyone to live a decent life in future cities.[/quote]

But does it? Love doesn’t interest the masters as much as actual, moving love stories. One can exchange a mere handful of these for a Bazaar Permit from the Masters’ hand, no less. I’d say the social inequities, the rampant poverty and corruption are a much better soil for that kind of drama than a fair and just system. Would the stories of Hunter’s Keep’s sister be as interesting if London was a fair democracy? Maybe Lucy’s would. Cynthia’s and Phoebe’s definitely wouldn’t.

As for the main topic, for now the revolutionnaries do not hold much ground in London, and directly antigonizing the masters certainly isn’t helping. Their dabbling in Third City-related, er, eldritch arts, for lack of a better word, and their recent reorganization into a ‘Calendar Council’ coins them as a growing power however. One can also speculate they have the discreet support of Hell, if only to support the mayhem they inevitably tend to sow.
At any rate, their methods are much too extreme for my tastes, and their ideals far too unreachable, not to mention the nature of their foes. As it has been speculated before, I think it would take an individual of certain noteworthiness for them to make a difference. Whether this difference would be for the good of the Neath, I honestly doubt it.

9

That’s what Benjamin Disraeli said. Yes, I do know who he is!
The idea that only a few are wise enough to govern is not a new tool for suppressing the masses!

10

That’s what Benjamin Disraeli said. Yes, I do know who he is!
The idea that only a few are wise enough to govern is not a new tool for suppressing the masses![/quote]

I doubt that Benjamin Disraeli had to deal with a sentient market run by hooded bat-creatures, and [color=#ffffff]the market feeds on love written in a strange alien language.[/color]

11

I think that what they’re doing is good in theory, but I believe they’re doing it for the wrong reasons, and are too disorganized to have much of an effect. Anarchy really isn’t what we should be striving towards. Also, even if they do succeed in taking down the Masters, we don’t know what the repercussions will be. Maybe the entire Neath will collapse without the Masters to keep the Bazaar under control…it’s impossible to tell, because we still know so little about the Bazaar and the Masters.

12

Yes and no. I don’t agree with their methods, and I’m not too much of a fan of anarchy either; but if it helps my goals and values I don’t see them as thorough enemies either.
I won’t support it as the primary gain, but if it does well I can consider it even so.

13

I will also say that membership within the Revolutionaries does not necessarily mean one is entirely sympathetic to their cause or methods.
Some merely like to be a revolutionary and could care less about actual revolution. Others could be puppets of the powers that be in disguise!

14

[quote=Nigel Overstreet]
Some merely like to be a revolutionary and could care less about actual revolution[/quote]

If you just want to be a revolutionary to blow stuff up and kill bankers, aren’t you just a common criminal with a fancier title?

15

No, criminals make money. You’re a common sociopath with a fancy title. But in Fallen London, a fancy title means a great deal!
I was referring more to the revolutionaries of the 19th century who wrote a great many speeches and wrote theses & pamphlets, but never actually did anything of significance to advance their cause. Their main purpose was not to achieve revolution, but rather to gain prominence.

16

You’re a common sociopath with a fancy title.
[/quote]

I believe we call these people “politicians”. :)

17

You’re a common sociopath with a fancy title.
[/quote]

I believe we call these people “politicians”. :)[/quote]

Wow, do you live in Italy? XD (I do ^^")

On the matter of the Revolution, keeping in line with my character Blue’s usual circumspection, I’d answer DEFINITELY AYE, though it’s better to hide those tendencies to be able to maintain a better public facade. Mind you - I’m not saying that the Masters are necessarily evil, nor that a revolution would necessarily bring any well deserved surge in social equality and justice. If anything, revolutionaries’ methods are questionable at least: too violent, and ultimately too disorganized to have any real consequence as of now, no matter how many bankers they manage to kill with bombings.

BUT, nonetheless, evil or not evil, sure the Masters are up to something - at the very least, planning the substitution of London with another city (and then, probably, another one too), with a very good chance of extremely detrimental consequences on the general population. Until the Master’s real intent won’t be clarified, the Revolutionaries are the only faction actively organizing to hinder them (maybe the Church could be of help too, but it seems only concerned with devils. And the Great Game is quite neutral, but usually stays clear of the Master’s path. The Rubbery Men have their own agenda, and the Tomb-Colonists may be without fear, but also bored and undecisive. Maybe the Duchess would be of help? The other factions more or less either defend the Master’s status quo or mind their own business). So it’s but useful to help their efforts in case the population of London will ever need protection from the Master’s plans. Of course, should such plans prove not so detrimental or even actually beneficial, anybody should be ready to switch sides. But in the end, considering the ill omens for the future of London, I think everybody should prepare himself for the worst possible scenario, and start gathering resources for a resistance.

18

The masters are immortal cloaked creatures that could be fallen angels, aliens or pterodactyls, and all of those seem nigh impossible to kill. They have centuries of experience and probably had to deal with revolutionaries from past cities. Kings queens and tyrants have bowed to their will and they hold the power of the correspondence. The Revolution is a lost cuase. They burn down innocents buildings and will die in the orphanage with less then a scratch on the back of the masters. The revulution may be what is right, but its certainly not going to work.

19

I think what’s pivotal here is the header’s text “…It’s quiet down here with the devils and the darkness and the mushroom wine. Peaceful. But then YOU arrived”. The revolution may be a lost cause, but we mustn’t underestimate the threat posed by a cunning, daring player to the balance of power. After all, last that I knew, what actually died burned down was [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]SPOILER[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)]the orphanage itself (during the course of the Light Fingers ambition).[/color]SPOILER
[/color]

20

I think what’s pivotal here is the header’s text “…It’s quiet down here with the devils and the darkness and the mushroom wine. Peaceful. But then YOU arrived”. The revolution may be a lost cause, but we mustn’t underestimate the threat posed by a cunning, daring player to the balance of power. After all, last that I knew, what actually died burned down was [color=rgb(0, 0, 0)]SPOILER[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)]the orphanage itself (during the course of the Light Fingers ambition).[/color]SPOILER
[/color][/quote]

And you can also choose to [color=#ffffff]leave it standing.[/color]