The Revolution: Aye or Nay?

You have to look where the Masters’ power actually comes from. How do they rule London? Why are they so (apparantly) unassailable? Their bases of their power are economic and political - so, they only have power through others. Sure, there’s the personal-band-of-thugs thing, but that’s really an outgrowth of the economic power; you don’t become a Neddy Man because you like the Masters, you sign up because you’re hoping for favour. The Masters’ favour is only valued because they have power, and they only really have that power, essentially, because of their wealth. And wealth can be taken, buildings can be burned down and even if the Masters are immortal, the Neddy Men aren’t. What is Mr Iron going to do without its sycophants, personally stab the workers to death with a quill-pen?

And who says you would have to kill them? There’s more than one way to dispose of an immortal nuisance. Such as a small, velvet lined box.

(Not that I think a violent revolution is going to work. But you have to realise that the Masters’ power is not immutable. The French aristocrats were wealthy and powerful, too.)

[quote=Cedric Appleby] You have to look where the Masters’ power actually comes from. How do they rule London? Why are they so (apparantly) unassailable? Their bases of their power are economic and political - so, they only have power through others. Sure, there’s the personal-band-of-thugs thing, but that’s really an outgrowth of the economic power; you don’t become a Neddy Man because you like the Masters, you sign up because you’re hoping for favour. The Masters’ favour is only valued because they have power, and they only really have that power, essentially, because of their wealth. And wealth can be taken, buildings can be burned down and even if the Masters are immortal, the Neddy Men aren’t. What is Mr Iron going to do without its sycophants, personally stab the workers to death with a quill-pen?

And who says you would have to kill them? There’s more than one way to dispose of an immortal nuisance. Such as a small, velvet lined box.
[/quote]
Maybe we haven’t even seen a glimmer of the power they have? They could just be using Needy men because they don’t need to use their “magical” powers. Heck the needy men could be normal people who are magically enslaved. The masters are capable of creating a substance that lets you travel to dreams and can bring people back from the dead. The only reason the revolutionaries are not dead is ether they have outwitted the masters (which is highly unlikely) or that the masters don’t think of them as a big enough threat. If the masters wanted to, they could everyone in the neath die in an explosion of fire. London cant possibly win against the masters they are just one of the many civilizations that are enslaved to the Bazaar and its “fated” that there will be two more civilizations. Even IF the revulutanaries chould defeat the masters the devils will take over london and use the bazaar for there twisted needs. Hell could destroy the world with the power of the bazaar! Just hitch a ride to the orient before the masters abandon London and get a flask of cider or peach brandy. Thats what I plan to do.
edited by Jack Blackstone on 7/11/2012

[quote=Jack Blackstone]
Maybe we haven’t even seen a glimmer of the power they have? They could just be using Needy men because they don’t need to use their “magical” powers. Heck the needy men could be normal people who are magically enslaved. The masters are capable of creating a substance that lets you travel to dreams and can bring people back from the dead. The only reason the revolutionaries are not dead is ether they have outwitted the masters (which is highly unlikely) or that the masters don’t think of them as a big enough threat. If the masters wanted to, they could everyone in the neath die in an explosion of fire. London cant possibly win against the masters they are just one of the many civilizations that are enslaved to the Bazaar and its “fated” that there will be two more civilizations. Even IF the revulutanaries chould defeat the masters the devils will take over london and use the bazaar for there twisted needs. They destroy the world! Just hitch a ride to the orient before they abandon London and get a flask of cider or peach brandy. Thats what I plan to do.[/quote]

Well old chum, it may be true that many civilizations were enslaved by the bazaar and could do nothing but be annihilated, but you forget that none of those civilizations was British, and this can’t but account for something. Mind you, this means that the current Fallen City is the only one boasting a “proper” civilization at all! :)

Revolutionaries serve a useful purpose to me. Convince them that you’re a sympathizer, and you gain access to all manner of interesting things. As for whether or not I’m actually a sympathizer, I’ll simply say that the Masters offer something the revolutionaries could never hope to give me. And I intend to accept that offer when the time comes.

I doubt the revolution will ever succeed, but I believethe constant threat of bombings or stabbings will keep things in line a bit. Not so much to bother the Masters, but to keep our fellow citizens in check. A little chaos to keep things peaceful, if you will. The Masters seem to be invincible beings, and I personally don’t want to risk a pointless attack on them to no avail. I say the best chance the revolutionaries have is to read up on The Correspondence and hope to find a way to kill the Masters from that. Doesn’t seem like a bad plan.

…At least, not badder than any plan involving reading the Correspondence :)
edited by streetfelineblue on 7/20/2012

Bleh Revolutionaries.
I’ve lost fondness for them ever since my benefactor had me assist in his revolutionary deeds and blew himself up.
Not exactly an example I wish to follow.

That annihilation will bounce off of our stiff upper-lips?

That annihilation will bounce off of our stiff upper-lips?[/quote]

If the sea turned to fire and there was a rain of blood, we’d complain about the weather.

If the Horsemen ride and the End of Days come upon us, we’d say, “well, we’re in a spot of trouble and no mistake!”, then carry on with our day.

I deem the revolutionaries unwise and unlikely to succeed, as they have no real idea what they are fighting against. You can’t overthrow the Masters when you don’t understand their nature! All they are going to get is dead, or in jail. They can have their bombs, I will be quietly learning what I can,and not making enemies I don’t need to. knowledge is power!

Honestly, the Revolutionaries of the Neath remind me a bit of the people of the French Revolution: a ragtag group of people with varying views, who agree that things aren’t fair and something should be done about it, more so than what exactly they are all standing up to fight for in the first place or subtle intellectual ways to go about getting whatever it is they want. Once the Masters would be out of the way, there would nothing to stop them from turning against one another, spoiler[color=FFFFFF]making it all the more likely that something will go wrong, leaving the bazaar hungering for love [color=FFFFFF]stories. And I don’t think ANYONE wants to know what would happen then.[/color][/color]spoiler

Even if they did go they some people have suggested and have one person to unite them and take down the Masters, it would be quite dangerous to give one person that much power. I could see it once again going the way of the French Revolution, with Robespierre and his Committee for Public Saftey killing off anyone they thought had links to high society and royalty. There is a reason why the time period after the French Revolution was known as the Reign of Terror, after all.

In order for it to work I think there would have to be a council of people, maybe thirty or so, from differing backgrounds but all considered quite intelligent in their own ways, to support and direct the Revolutionaries. Through discussion and consensus, they would figure out exactly what the revolutionaries are trying to represent, how to best go over usurping the Masters, and how they would handle Fallen London once control was given to them. That way the Revolutionaries wouldn’t be as divided over what they were working towards, but there wouldn’t be the problem of one person having too much power.

That being said, I like to keep my allegiance up with both the Masters AND the Revolutionaries, so I can hopefully end up on the right side of things not matter which way the chips end up falling.
edited by NathanGerimi on 8/12/2012

The masters are not entirley evil, yet of course not entirley good. They occasionaly do evil acts and are not on the whole caring for London. But you must relize, that the masters and the bazzar are the reason we reside here in Fallen London. They bought/stole london and brung it to the neath, and through the neath we gain knowlage and adventure. They give us a chance to investigate their mysteries, they intrige us, they encourage us to look at those appaling secrets, and show us what nightmares really are. I do not stay loyal to the masters because I wish to earn their favors and goodies (usually), I am intriged by their their secrets, the corrispondence, and the journeys that await me.

On part on the revolutionaries, I may show disdain. Those radicals blow almost everything up and hurt innocent people for the asinine reason of revolution, in which many agree is not going to happen. So my choice is NAY to revolution.

I have face question quite often and struggled with it.

On the one hand the Masters of the Bazaar are an ecliptic bunch, inhabiting a morality between that of hell and heaven. They exemplify the worst of capitalism, holding monopolies over necessary resources and boasting armies of union breakers and thugs. They’re like Andrew Carnegie without philanthropist tendencies or human decency. Their power is unquestioned, their wealth immeasurable, and their agendas a complete mystery. To side with them is to position oneself to receive great powers at the expense of those they repress.

I fought for the Unions at the battle of Wolfstack Docks because I believed in their right for better working conditions. Yet I raise a Toast to the Constables for their stance on maintaining Order, even if it means confronting the operations of Hell itself in Fallen London. They do serve the needs of the people, against Jack-of-Smiles, Spirifers, and any monsters crawling out of the swamps. I generally disregard the Revolutionaries save those who exhibit intellect and understanding such as the Affluent Photographer, whom I have agreed to work with.

In the end I like to think of myself as serving the common good while helping out those I care about. But I am coming upon the most important decision of the Affairs of the Box storyline, which will either put me in the good graces of the Masters or establish myself as opposed to their dealings.

So for now nay on the revolution, because I hope there is a better way.

edited by Owen Wulf on 10/1/2012

Later or sooner somebody’s going to have to be the awkward person who says… shouldn’t it be ‘yea or nay’?
Aye or nay just sounds very weird to my ears
As for my vote: “Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.” While revolutions have their place, change is more often effected by much more subtle and insidious methods…

In character, my character believes the Bazaar is necessary (see affair of the box) but maybe not run by the masters. While I need more info, there is one thing he/she has learned in the neath. All things can die. Those the Revolution may be useful to those goals and a new order.

I second this, entirely.
There’s little doubt that at least some of the Masters will want to discard London at some point; the cities that fell before are a testament to it’s inevitability. As such, they likely quelled untold numbers of revolutionaries in the past, and London’s own rabble rousers aren’t particularly impressive specimens. As others have mentioned here, if anyone has any hope of dealing with the Masters, it will likely involve the Correspondence and it’s relationship with them and the Bazaar. Not necessarily as a way to hurt them, but perhaps a way to persuade or negotiate with them? But who knows? We can only try.

As far as the class divide goes, it can be said that it is vital to the upkeep of the Bazaar, especially if the Masters are taken out of the equation. Some of the greatest, most poignant and arguably highest quality love stories rise from tragedy and oppression. It makes sense for the Masters to foster this divide the way they do; in the same way that decay and ash can produce the most fragrant and brilliant flowers, so too does love blossom in the slums of London.

I suspect that many of you may be underestimating what, exactly, the Revolutionaries know about the Bazaar and the properties of Fallen London.

If you’ll do some exchanges of candles, you’ll see that they’re performing some very interesting experiments indeed.

Hmm, this is an interesting point. One has to wonder, perhaps the masters WANT revolution. Or, rather, revolutionaries.

Also, I’m not so sure how inevitable it is that the fifth city will be lost. We know that Mr. Fires at least prefers it here.