I am not sure it’s ‘for no reason.’ It gives him a purpose, a reason to stick to charity and good works and the strength to fight devils. Given he is not giving people grief for who they love and how long their skirts are, I would say being devout has helped him immensely.
Being a Buddhist myself, I asked my Lama if there is any truth in what he believes: sure, meditation and kindness and all that improve my life, but how do we know the supernatural element is real?
His answer was "why do you even care?"
I know there are reasons to want to know the Truth, but I doubt the Bishop would see his life as a waste if he knew the Star-lore we as players know.
[quote=Jolanda Swan]I completed the story but I admit I am a bit lost as to what happened and why.
I loved the story of Southwark, and the story of James. I loved that we got a very convincing explanation of where the Church stands in matters of homosexuality and sexuality, especially given that questions break out in the forum again and again. Nice to have an official answer.
I didn’t make head or tails of many, many things though. First of all the Court of Diligence hinted at monumental, life-shattering tasks but the feats we had to perform were… really, really easy. Even without the players’ advice, the Bishop would have handled them fine on his own - we weren’t needed save as friends. I was expecting (dreading) horrible dilemmas but instead we got a nice trip of self-discovery. Though I am personally grateful I didn’t have to depress myself (I am soft and my heart is squishy) it makes no sense that Hell would punish the Bishop with a walk in the park, especially given the build-up and the dread. I mean… compared to Abstraction and Matrimony, Diligence was child’s play.
Having said that I have no idea why Matrimony was even mentioned - it made no sense and it’s value to Hell is never explained. I also have no idea what the human-looking devils were supposed to be. Or what Clarissa wanted or who she was. And finally I have no idea what the Dowager was asking of us and what she plans to do with the advice. I was expecting something to happen after she asked and we answered and… nothing. As for the politics, did we learn anything else apart from the well-known fact that Devils have factions?
Am I extremely confused, or were all these threads left hanging?
My other complaint is that the story was unnecessarily action-consuming. The Goat for example was pure padding (tickets, bets, two rounds of fighting… more than half a candle for a completely unrelated story? I am a Paramount Presence, it made absolutely no sense to have to prove anything to a man I have helped breed zee monsters). And it didn’t stop there. Sitting down and opening an envelope, required two different actions. And you had to open four of them! I had saved my Darkdrop coffee for the story, and I didn’t mind buying a candle, but I wanted story for these items, not action-wasters.
All in all, I am left with a lovely impression of Southwark and his story, the Dowager’s haunting image and a bunch of questions.
edited by Jolanda Swan on 12/19/2019[/quote]
I agree, but I think what was going on was the devils were hoping that the journey of self-discovery would provide temptation for Southwark to contemplate and even agree to abstraction - which was rather arrogant by the devils to assume. (well at least Virginia). It might also be that these are tasks to align with the devil’s values and they may not fully understand what is a moral dilemma for a human. (Or that this was in same way doing a mini reenactment of their own rebellion? Giving into frivolity, admitting they no longer loved their masters, overthrowing them and then seeking to overthrow who their masters served.)
I believe it’s stated or implied that the Devils wanted to use Southwark to drag the church’s and the Bishop’s reputation through the mud, which is what they try in all tasks. The first two are to degrade the Bishop, while the last two are to strain the Church’s status with the government, the public and the Bazaar. The second task could also call into question the current sanctity of Scripture, which would hurt the Church more fundamentally than the others. This could also be accomplished with an Abstraction (the scandal of a Bishop seeming to sell his soul, and the Bishop would probably lose his drive against Hell), while Matrimony seems to do the same, but also as a sort of torment to the Bishop- he could lead to less harm to his colleagues if he sacrifices and marries Virginia. It may also do what the second task does- question why marrying a devil is allowed, which would in turn rebound on the changes God’s Editors are making.
You are all correct of course. The thing is, all of these tasks were ultimately harmless - this is fallen London after all. Of course I chose to cushion him as much as I could, so perhaps it’s the player who decides the impact. It’s just that given what they had on him, they could ask him to strip naked and denounce the Queen if they wanted to. It makes sense that they wanted to drive him to Abstraction, but I must say the plan was unlikely to succeed.
In short, I think it was the diffrence between the setup (galleys, contracts, torture) and the execution (japes around London) that failed to persuade me. But it served me very well: I prefer the human adventures and choices I was given to a dark story of a veteran’s inevitable fall. It’s the season to be merry after all!
PS Who is Clarissa? What happened to Michael? What did the Dowager do? Does anyone know?
edited by Jolanda Swan on 12/21/2019
re: Michael
If you Double Cross Virginia by selling her out to the Dowager, Michael becomes a companion https://fallenlondon.fandom.com/wiki/Masked_Former_Priest
edited by Lady Karnstein on 12/21/2019
I am not sure it’s ‘for no reason.’ It gives him a purpose, a reason to stick to charity and good works and the strength to fight devils. Given he is not giving people grief for who they love and how long their skirts are, I would say being devout has helped him immensely.
Being a Buddhist myself, I asked my Lama if there is any truth in what he believes: sure, meditation and kindness and all that improve my life, but how do we know the supernatural element is real?
His answer was "why do you even care?"
I know there are reasons to want to know the Truth, but I doubt the Bishop would see his life as a waste if he knew the Star-lore we as players know.[/quote]
I remember trying to use this to add some drama to my captain’s story in S.Skies (with a Priest origin), but then he merely took the Judgements for gnostic demiurges and proceeded with his crusades with doubled enthusiasm :)
For characters such as the Bishop, there will always be a reason. And I guess it’s part of what makes them sympathetic.
Not reading through the thread yet as I don’t want to be spoilered ;)
I’d just like to know whether there’s anything specifically helpful I should bring to the Prickfinger Wastes (or any later part of the story)? Any items I should stock up on?
[quote=phryne]Not reading through the thread yet as I don’t want to be spoilered ;)
I’d just like to know whether there’s anything specifically helpful I should bring to the Prickfinger Wastes (or any later part of the story)? Any items I should stock up on?[/quote]
Just actions.
Can you keep fighting the goat Demon after you finish the story?
…Yes, actually. I just realized.
[quote=Lady Karnstein]re: Michael If you Double Cross Virginia by selling her out to the Dowager, Michael becomes a companion https://fallenlondon.fandom.com/wiki/Masked_Former_Priest
edited by Lady Karnstein on 12/21/2019[/quote]
Oh. So the only way to get that was… hidden.
Even though it was a nice opportunity to a) harm Virginia b) understand the Dowager’s plan and c) get a companion - I am not a collector but many people are.
This is what I really, really don’t like in stories. Playing through and then discovering there was so much more to do, if only you had taken a very specific, seemingly unrelated choice.
I liked this story, but I’m wondering if this means we won’t get a Mayoral story again. Virginia showed up a little bit in this one, but this story was focused solely on the Bishop. It also had nothing tied in with our conversation with her during the Festival of the Zee.
[quote=Jolanda Swan]
Oh. So the only way to get that was… hidden.
Even though it was a nice opportunity to a) harm Virginia b) understand the Dowager’s plan and c) get a companion - I am not a collector but many people are.
This is what I really, really don’t like in stories. Playing through and then discovering there was so much more to do, if only you had taken a very specific, seemingly unrelated choice.[/quote]
I doubt there was much more content you missed. Unless I missed it too. He is just kinda brought over at the end. There is not really a meaningful conversation about it.
Is it even possible not to have the Bishop acquitted in the end?
[quote=Jolanda Swan]PS Who is Clarissa? What happened to Michael? What did the Dowager do? Does anyone know?[/quote][spoiler]Michael seems to have been very successfully "tempted" by Hell, and Clarissa was apparently the deviless encharged with the tempting:
When you blink, the Dowager’s mind is silent. You open your eyes and in the mirrors you see a thousand copies of Clarissa in a ball-gown speaking to a thousand reflections of a green-eyed man in the robes of a priest. The clamour of the Dowager’s ruined mind starts up a heartbeat later.
That a human can be turned into an actual devil, or half-devil or whatever, is probably the most important bit of lore from this story. Don’t think that ever came up before.[/spoiler]
As to the Dowager, I’m not sure what your question refers to. I didn’t see her do anything but give me the vision in the above spoiler tag, but I didn’t get the ending with Michael as a companion. Not sure whether she has anything to do with him apparently switching sides again. She doesn’t seem in a position to do much of anything.
Speaking of her, can you imagine anything more insulting than using this former member of infernal royalty as a mobile congress centre? Got to admire the revolutionary zeal of the Devils, even though I agree with the Bishop that their revolutionary court wasn’t as badass as expected. But I think the whole thing was a charade planned by Michael anyway. None of the Devils seemed to have their hearts in it, especially Virginia.
:edit: expanded spoiler tag to include more of the spoilery stuff
edited by phryne on 12/29/2019
I enjoyed the story but found it quite odd that neither my title of Bishop nor my soullessness affected the story choices!
[quote=phryne]Is it even possible not to have the Bishop acquitted in the end?
[/quote]
Yes, but you have to know which trials you have to judge against him.
Can I accept Virginia’s bribe and not vote against the bishop?
Yes. Don’t expect her to like it, though.
I’ll probably play this soon, so just to be safe: the cross is guaranteed, regardless of any events in the story, yes?
You get it before making any big decisions, so I would guess so unless it’s possible to lose it somehow.
By the way, thoughts on the card the cross gives you?
The card doesn’t seem to be discardable, which is a little odd. I’ve only gotten 2 Visions of the Surface on the first option, which seems low compared to other Fate/ES-related card benefits, but I’m not sure what everyone else thinks, or if it’s randomized to some extent? The extra favors option is fun though (gives a point of wounds, but that’s one of the easier menaces to manage in my experience, and the text is great)