New Masters Info

So, our wonderous overlords at FBG have just released some glorious new Masters information, which has got the IRC in a tizzy.

The IRC’s current guesses as to which Master is which


[ul][li]hoarding (Stones?)
[/li][li]light-bringing (Fires?)
[/li][li]impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony (Veils?) (Apples/Hearts?) (Sacks, maybe? but Sacks isn’t a real master)
[/li][li]perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle (Irons)
[/li][li]idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams (Spices?)
[/li][li]runtery, aberration, (Candles)
[/li][li]pursuit of a Treachery (?)
[/li][li]failure and defeat; a fall from king to beggar (Wines?)
[/li][li]glass-whispering. And worse: charity (Mirrors/Cups?)
[/li][li]truth-strangling (Pages?)
[/li][li]violation of the Order of Days, “which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter” (Veils?) (Apples/Hearts?)
[/li][/ul] [/spoiler]

This info was really, really cool and made the Masters a lot more sympathetic as characters. They aren’t tyrannical evil space-bats, they’re outcasts, criminals, and victims, just like the rest of us.
My guesses

Now, since there are only 11, are they excluding the deceased Mr. Candles, or Veils, who might not be from the High Wilderness?

hoarding- Stones

light-bringing- Candles?

impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony- no idea

perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle- Irons

idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams- Spices, Wines, or Mirrors, since their domains all involve (or desire) dreams

runtery, aberration,- no idea

pursuit of a Treachery- no idea

failure and defeat; a fall from king to beggar- Fires?

glass-whispering. And worse: charity- Mirrors or Wines, since their domains both involve dreams but their probably more charitable than Spices

truth-strangling- probably Pages

violation of the Order of Days, “which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter”- Veils is a likely answer, but since they may not have originated from the High Wilderness, maybe Apples/Hearts

They’re certainly including candles in that. He was 100% the runt. Called that with those exact words.
edited by suinicide on 3/9/2017

Not necessarily, the Chill of the Void Destiny could hint that Veils might ironically be the one guilty of hoarding.

&quotVeils snatches a splinter of rock from the emptiness with the least of his vanes, to stow somewhere among his treasures.&quot

  1. hoarding - maybe Stones, especially the Stones on Twitter. (May your friendship with diamonds be everlasting.)
  2. light-bringing - very probably Candles (from a memory of amalgamy: &quotI would like to say that I decided then to bring light to the lower links&quot)
  3. impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony -No idea. (Mr A&H/Mr C&M/Mr V&V all fit &quotimpersonation&quot. Mirrors reflect everything and deliver their virtual images, but who is &quotglass- whispering&quot then? On second thoughts, Mr A&H treats Apples and Hearts as entirely different identities, which is more &quotimpersonation&quot than Mirrors. I suspect Mr A&H for now.)
  4. perpetration of the crimes of knife and of candle - likely Mr Iron
  5. idleness, and the dwelling-on of dreams - No idea. (Mr Spices? Mr Wines? Mr Mirrors who does not want to rule, wish only to reflect?)
  6. runtery, aberration, - No idea. (Sounds a little Candles. What is runtery indeed?)
  7. pursuit of a Treachery - No idea. (Capitalized T? Pursuiting one of the Seven Treacheries? Maps, Clocks, Breath, Glass? Or others?)
  8. failure and defeat; a fall from king to beggar - No idea.
  9. glass-whispering. And worse: charity - No idea. (Charity is worse? Sounds a little Mirrors and Cups.)
  10. truth-strangling - Pages, I agree.
  11. violation of the Order of Days, “which determines the hour of the hunt, the feast, the council, the bargain, and the slaughter” No idea.

And the Number is awkwardly (and naturally) 11 here. If we include Candles, we might need to align 3 identities to Mr C&M and Mr A&H… but how?
(I have no answers but only more questions. Whither I go.)
edited by Fadewalker on 3/9/2017

We are all very sure of ourselves that Mirrors/Cups and Hearts/Apples are the same people, but this info really makes me think otherwise. Split Hearts/Apples and Mirrors/Cups up into 2 each and add the rest of the Masters, including Candles, and you have 12. That must mean only one of them is 2 of them and that is most likely Cups/Mirros. In the Chill of the Void destiny, 10 Masters are mentioned (throughout the various specific destinies), including yourself, and both Hearts and Apples are mentioned separately while only Cups is mentioned, not Mirrors. The only ones not mentioned are Mirrors (because they’re Cups) and Fires (IDK why. Maybe he stayed in London?)
edited by Vortigaunt on 3/9/2017

[quote=Vortigaunt]This info was really, really cool and made the Masters a lot more sympathetic as characters. They aren’t tyrannical evil space-bats, they’re outcasts, criminals, and victims, just like the rest of us.
I had a different reaction. Many of the Masters continue with their crimes, even despite the enduring punishment they have received on account of them. They’re not just outcasts, they have fled their homeland and their society and have created a new society specifically to support their continued interest in these activities. They are obsessives, consumed by and defined by their transgressions. They threw themselves down a well of their own choosing (the Neath) rather than suffer the consequences of their actions.

I look forward to the implied interactions with others of their kind in Sunless Skies, so that I can contrast the &quotun-fallen&quot ones with those degenerates who call themselves &quotMasters.&quot The nature of what they consider to be crimes is interesting. Some of them seem to be handed down by Judgements (glass-whispering, and light-bringing which seems to be in violation of the Great Chain), and some of them seem particular to their kind’s predilections towards hunting and commerce (charity, hoarding). There are some specific ones that could go either way (Knife and Candle? Order of Days?).

A suggestion for determining the Masters of the Bazaar:
The captain statistics in Sunless Sea and the upcoming Sunless Skies are, quite coincidentally, Veils, Pages, Hearts, Iron, and Mirrors. They correspond with certain abilities in the game:
Iron: The skill of causing direct damage
Mirrors: The skill of perception and detection
Veils: The skill of subtlety and evasion
Hearts: The skill of healing and morale
Pages: The skill of trickery and knowledge

Perhaps that helps?

Runtery is most definitely Candles, as stated above. I’m looking forward to hearing more of the community on the subject. :)

This furthers my idle wondering that the “All shall be well” promise indicated the Masters came from their own unfortunate circumstsances

Is “all shall be well” a masters in general thing or is it specifically a Mr Eaten thing? I personally only recall it with Eaten, but my knowledge of the lore is pathetic.

Its the bazaar’s promise.

From some of the Destiny text, &quotNot all of us are proud of our origins&quot spoken to Veils, I have to wonder if it isn’t the beggar-king.

The phrase &quotruntery&quot could refer to the runt themselves, or it could refer to the behavior towards runts that their kind engages in.

I’ve had a long standing theory that Mr Chimes is a Master who’s “tic” is impersonating the other masters. Having the crime of "impersonation, and the delivery of false testimony " would fit that perfectly.

Although Stones is the most avaricious of the bunch, all the Masters seem fairly accumulative, especially when it comes to the items they specialize in. Mirrors’ has a whole warehouse of mirrors, Spices’ maintains a whole room full of spices, and so on and so on. So they could all very well be guilty of hoarding, with Stones just being the most guilty.
edited by Anne Auclair on 3/10/2017

First off, we have eleven reasons. Eleven masters must have left, and we know Eaten was one at the time. It’s implied that Veils came from somewhere else, but perhaps that is not true, or perhaps it was before their exile.

We know not-Masters can become Masters, as the player may become one in a Destiny. What solid proof do we have that Cups is Mirrors, and that Apples is Hearts? I am curious also to know where it says Eaten was ever a runt, as well as what, if anything, is known about the Order of Days.

I agree with the labelling of Stones and Iron. Stones even mentions something about a cure for hoarding (quoted on Handsome Zack’s list of the Masters, though I don’t know the origin).

I could have sworn there were ten current masters, and that adding one more made eleven (for the destiny text) but I seem to have miscounted. X.x

I propose, perhaps, Love might be a Treachery of some sort? We know there’s a couple Masters that have a thing for this, though it might be only because of the Bazaar. The idea of breedign creatures being related to some unknown Treachery might be right instead, or perhaps as well.

Charity…well, in terms of charity to humans, Fires does like London as a whole, and Iron did warn the player on Christmas of things, with little to gain as a result. But I’m not sure that’s directly charitable, and it probably wasn’t towards humans at all. I think, perhaps, this might be Mr. Eaten, or his old self at least. He made himself a target, he genuinely liked the Second City and perhaps the First, he gave things to humans (Fadewalker’s quote supports this).

If runtery isn’t Candles, aberration might indicate the master in charge of the Labyrinth breeding program…Iunno. I’m just kinda guessing. Something something violating the Chain and I don’t even know details about Red Science or if it applies. Then again, if it is tormenting runts, perhaps this is Veils. He does love killing those who are lesser.

We know Cups never does anything for his Revels, and he is after dreams and fighting Spices for them, so perhaps idleness and dreams is him.

I wonder if either of the Masters we’ve seen gambling (Pages in the Marvellous and Apples for the yacht) might be a clue in some way. It could be one of these is failure and defeat, or why they fell from king to beggar. Then again, Cups oversees the Relickers, for some reason, and I’ve always thought of them as a sort of beggary type. No idea if that’s accurate. But I could also see Veils – not being proud of origins might imply he is proud of where he came from, or it might imply he isn’t proud of falling from power and becoming an exile.

As a footnote, I find it very interesting that the Jovial Contrarian may possess a copy of A Rhyming Revelry, and I wonder if we know the identity of the cellist. Was the Topsy King a musician as well as a scholar? headtilt
edited by shylarah on 3/10/2017
edited by shylarah on 3/10/2017

Perhaps the beggar is Mr. Sacks. All he did in London was knock on your door and ask for your stuff after all. Perhaps that’s why he’s so different from the other masters, with his red robe and gravelly voice, perhaps he kept stuff from a former status as a king or maybe even a chief of other masters.

The clearest reference I can recall is buried deep inside SMEN and costs a serious amount of work to see - a candle that’s most easily obtained by sacrificing a lot of Notability. o_O

Thankfully, Spacemarine9 echoed it:

Did Sacks ever give anything? Charity?