[quote=lukeskylicker]I’m not familiar with "The White’s Plan." It might be something I would like to preach. Despite being a revolutionary at heart I never liked the liberation once I learned what it was.
An alternative to a complete destruction of the universe would be nice.[/quote]
It’s probably not something you’d like to preach, then. The plan is described here (beware, heavy spoilers). If you don’t wanna go into full-spoilers, a short version of the plan is "an empty universe rather than a disordered one" edited by incerteza on 7/10/2018
How about we don’t? Please. Fellow Londoners. All of these plans are awful. The Liberation will turn the world into a nightmare, not unlike the Iron Republic. The Bazaars plan will cause more and more grief, at least two more cities, the continuation of the Master poking their most likely non-existent noses in more peoples business, and its success isn’t assured. As for White’s plan, an empty universe is empty. No ground to put your feet, no air to breath. and without the laws of the universe, death will be little more than an abstract idea. It would be eternal torment. Best case scenario is the mataining of the status quo
I was under impression you’re a Seeker, aren’t you? I mean, well, if you really care about things like "least awful plan", "best case scenario", and "not slamming one’s head onto ominous giant red button", you might not like this quest too much.
One of us is a Seeker, but he currently cannot speak for all of us, as he is currently tranqulized after attempting to light himself on fire muttering something about a seventh candle
Something needs to be done, because if nothing changes, then we are likely to die with our fear of the unknown. I’ll assume you don’t know the outcome of the Bazaar’s mission on humanity? The Bazaar’s mission varies among interpretations by the fanbase, but it ranges between two theories: the Bazaar seeking the right love story to save the Sun from dying of grief after it delivers them the message of an unknown star’s refusal of love, and the Bazaar convincing the Judgements of love outside the Chain to save themselves, the Sun, and their daughter from punishment by the gods for breaking Law. Either way, if the Bazaar can’t find the right love story to achieve their goal, then the Sun will surely perish, and us along with it. Something -ANYTHING- needs to be done to change the status quo, whether it be the death of gods and Law in the Liberation, the Bazaar succeeding in their goal, the Dawn Machine rewriting reality, Vicky shooting the Sun in the face to establish her rule, or any other mix of possibilities. If things remain as they are and the Bazaar fails to save her love, humanity and life on Earth are likely to die alongside the Sun’s death.
With that being said, it’s important to note that, while the Liberation is far from perfect (albeit uncertain in its final result), the current state of being is also horrible. By design, the universe is built by callous gods who feed off the death of their creations and play with their lives like toys, sending them to a hellish nightmare upon death. Existence itself is a horrid cruelty, and to say that any of the multiple plans for change are far too worse a fate is to not consider how dire our current state truly is. Some fates are surely worse than others, but with differing takes in Fallen London, Sunless Sea, and Sunless Skies on the Liberation’s outcome, it’s hard to say that our current state is truly the best outcome. edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 7/12/2018
None of these plans can ever come close to perfect, but the way things are now really are the best they can be. Think fellow Londoners. Things now aren’t perfect, but the universe probably won’t end if things continued the way they have been. All other plans involve humans either dying, trapped in an endless nightmare, or being brainwashed and enslaved to a dangerous inteligence. While it is true that we are only playthings to beings far beyond our comprehension, every time we have ever tried to do anything about it we failed miserably.
Yes, we live during a golden age in the best of possible worlds.
Not because we are ruled by tyrants both human and alien. Not because the status quo is maintained with a neddy stick and a steel-toed boot. Not because our supposed guardians of morality and natural order run dedicated facilities for experimentation on abducted orphans for the purpose of manufacturing particularly potent drugs. Not because black-clad censors build bonfires out of poetry books that dare to suggest that there’s more to humanity than this bleak existence. And certainly not because this chain of atrocities and oppression goes all the way up.
It’s because we have a rare historical opportunity to finally do something about it all.
The problem is is that there are two Liberations: one in the Neath, and the other in the High Wilderness.
The one in the Neath is designed to break the Masters’ control on London, and possibly prevent the other two cities from falling. And it results in a mass refugee crisis, and people dying from the many things emboldened by darkness. They will destroy the city they want to save, and many other cities in the Neath. Meanwhile, I imagine Mr. Veils will be eating well.
But, at the same time, they are trying to aid the cosmic Liberation, with two completely different goals. As far as I can tell, the Eye is using the Revolutionaries down here to get an advantage above, where the Judgements can’t get to them.
And as far as I can tell, the goal of the cosmic Liberation amounts to genocide of every Judgement, or converting them into Sable Suns, or both.
[quote=Ixc]But, at the same time, they are trying to aid the cosmic Liberation, with two completely different goals. As far as I can tell, the Eye is using the Revolutionaries down here to get an advantage above, where the Judgements can’t get to them.
And as far as I can tell, the goal of the cosmic Liberation amounts to genocide of every Judgement, or converting them into Sable Suns, or both.[/quote]
What is the Eye? What are the Sable Suns? It’s something from the Sunless Sea again, isn’t it? :(
(And, it’s not the point, but given Veils’ tantrums, I want to think he’ll be the first to bolt back to space.)
The Sable Suns are the architects of the Liberation, and enemies of the Judgements. They speak the Discordance, which as icy as the Correspondence is fiery. Which might be a problem, as they’d freeze us all to death. I think the goal is to use the humans of the Neath with promises of “Equality. Liberty. Opportunity.”, then kill them through freezing to prevent anyone else from taking their hold on cosmic power (though I don’t have evidence for that theory, except their extreme creepiness in the Eye.)
The Eye seems to be one of their agents… or passageways? to them, to spread a message. What is it? I don’t know, but I know it will hasten the long night.
I feel like mentioning that I opened the gate in the North while wearing nothing but a barrel, a scandalous hat and a pair of scarlet stockings, and the Judgements all saw it. I forced them to look at that. This makes me a more effective anarchist than the entire Calendar Council put together, in my opinion.
(I still wear that outfit to this day, and forevermore shall I wear it)
Presuming: The Bazaar is already slated to die by the Judgements. Meeting sunlight would destroy it. Then there is the Eye, and the population of anarchists in London and beyond helping it, who would be at least stymied or outright killed by sunlight. Grief can be spread from a Judgement to another, which is it’s goal.
The White has Seekers open the Avid Horizon.
Sunlight destroys the Bazaar, London, the Eye and anything aiding the Liberation through the Horizon.
The Sun is told of or sees its beloved’s death, and falls into mourning.
The White uses the Sun’s grief, and uses it for the “Counsel of Peace” and spreads it to the Judgements, killing all of them.
Nice plan. Profit?
And speaking of Veils… A tantrum seems like a tame response to 2000 years of homesickness. Then again, you can just violently murder people to get over it (like I do!).
P.S. The place in the Eye is called the House of Rods and Chains. The cones in the human eye deal with color and light, which in their view, chains us, while rods deal with seeing in the dark. edited by Ixc on 7/15/2018
[spoiler]The Bazaar’s love is one-sided. The Sun loves another. The Sun and the Bazaar did create a kind of offspring together, but she’s called "the sun’s experiment" and was hidden out of shame.
More likely, Seeking is supposed to turn the player into a sort of vessel of grief, (an anti-bazaar?) and reveal them to the Judgements. A hideously mortified beacon of thousands of years’ worth of hatred and misery. Just the saddest little candle you ever did see.
(or rather, seven candles, each representing a different torment?) If all goes according to plan, your miserable light should catch the eyes of a thousand thousand Judgements and make a good argument against rebelling or even existing.[/spoiler]
whatever the exact details, the White needs to chill.
[quote=Ixc][quote=a Nice Friend]whatever the exact details, the White needs to chill.
[/quote]How is a star going to be chill :)?[/quote]If anything, the White is the closest star to literally chilling.
If a star is unable to generate energy, then it will inevitably cool over time. White dwarves are by definition incapable of nuclear fusion, the primary energy source for stars. It is hypothesized that they will eventually cool to become black dwarves, which are too cold to shine.
In short, to chill, a star should grow old and die.
From a mid-game recently-became-a-POSI perspective:
the Liberation of Night? Like Kyle Katarn said, “I have a bad feeling about this”; it seems like something to hinder unless you really want to press the red button on the control panel.
No luminosity conversions 4 me.
But you know more end-game magic stuff that makes it sound like a viable alternative? I don’t know.
On one hand, I am frustrated when the writers put their content behind 1351498123123 hours of grinding. On the other hand, a part of the things you uncover were better when still shrouded in mystery. Well, can’t have your cake and eat it I guess.