An important part of telling stories in RPGs is reminding the player that they’re not all-powerful, that their decisions are ultimately the decisions of a single person: no matter how powerful and important they are, they can’t dictate other people’s lives for them. This isn’t the player’s story, it’s the family’s, and the player is only along for the ride. No matter how much they want to help, to get what they feel is best, ultimately it isn’t their decision. "What you do matters!" is a common mantra for choice based games, but in real life, it usually doesn’t in the scheme of things. And that’s an important part of life games should communicate as well.[li][/li][li]
edited by Gul al-Ahlaam on 10/20/2017
Wait, what? Sorry, I mean I see where you all are coming from, but no matter the ending I received I was planning on resetting the story. I was really looking forward to playing through the Cheery Man’s side of things and seeing his perspective on the whole affair. You all have made your intentions perfectly clear; I don’t think anyone who’s read your responses in this thread thinks you all were aiming for a cash grab. Is there any chance you all might possibly consider adding the reset back in? Maybe not now, while this is still fresh in everyone’s minds, but perhaps a little later?
For those of us who chose the "Intervene" option at the very end, will we be able to ask for a reset as well? (In my case, I didn’t realize that it would end the story with the same effect as walking away at the beginning, and I have yet to see a conclusion to the story.) Ultimately, it was the unequal odds that made me think I shouldn’t take the chance.
If coffee with the last constable comes back for people who had her survive, will there be a card like "Visit the grave of the last constable" for those who were not so lucky? I feel like giving long term benefits based on rng is rather rude. (This is of course, an if, since I don’t know if the card has actually been readded)
edited by suinicide on 10/20/2017
I’m not sure I understand why I gained Renown with the Constables instead of the Criminals through my actions.
[quote=ExceptionallyDelicious]Wait, what? Sorry, I mean I see where you all are coming from, but no matter the ending I received I was planning on resetting the story. I was really looking forward to playing through the Cheery Man’s side of things and seeing his perspective on the whole affair. You all have made your intentions perfectly clear; I don’t think anyone who’s read your responses in this thread thinks you all were aiming for a cash grab. Is there any chance you all might possibly consider adding the reset back in? Maybe not now, while this is still fresh in everyone’s minds, but perhaps a little later?[/quote][color=#C2B280]For me, the possibility people would think we built this story in bad faith wasn’t the main reason to remove the reset option. I’m more concerned that players who were attached to one of the characters might spend money on it (perhaps repeatedly) in order to change their fate, or be sorely tempted to – in either case, compromising their experience of the story. On consideration, it also seemed that as with Secrets Framed in Gold, this story was stronger for being non-repeatable.
I appreciate there will be players who’d like to reset the story for other reasons, and that this development isn’t great if you’re in that category. For what it’s worth, getting to see the Cheery Man’s perspective would be an innocuous use of an alt account that we wouldn’t take issue with.[/color]
[color=#C2B280]Just a quick update about resets – it’s the end of the working day now in London, so we’ll get to these on Monday (for people who lost companions, or who’ve emailed us by then). Thanks again for the feedback – we wish you a fine weekend, and fine weasels.[/color]
edited by Flyte on 10/20/2017
Says Flyte in his 666th post…
I have to admit, I disagree with the reasoning behind the lack of resets. Yes, SFiG cannot be reset for Fate. Almost every other story can be, and the major gameplay downside to it can be reset via Fate. The Waltzing Duke and his daughter (another estranged father/daughter pair)? Easily rechooseable for Fate. Who you sided with in the Box? Fate. Hell, a loved one of yours has died, and your major reason to go to the Neath is to get revenge for them? Some Fate, and all of a sudden, a huge gem is your driving goal. Having a story who’s best result is dependant on passing a luck check, and then removing the reset option, does seem a little disingenuous when you can pay Fate in order to get the best result of the Jack storyline. The lack of consistency in choices is the major problem for me here, I feel. The reset is gone so as to not "compromising their experience of the story[color=000000]", and yet paying Fate to get the best result of a story is a common practise?
I apologise if this post has come across as a little confrontaional, because it is not meant to be. But I just sincerely do not understand why this choice is made in this situation, and not in others. Especially when the reset option existed, and has then been removed.
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I’m actually curious about what happens with the various endings. I did the Double or Nothing option without tipping the odds in my favor, and because the RNG hates me, somehow both of them ended up dying, giving me renown with both criminals and constables and a searing enigma.
If you pick the Double or Nothing option, is it always guaranteed to kill both people upon failure, or is there a chance for the opponent to survive? Also, what happens when you intervene or spike the odds in your favor? I’m okay with how mine ended, but I’m still curious about what would happen if the others survived.
Yeah, I think having the option to reset it with fate would be fine as long as things were made clear. If people choose to spend fate to gamble on the outcome, that’s their choice and not something FBG is responsible for.
That said, I too want to say thanks for the changes that were made. I am very very grateful, so thank you very much.
(Fleshy will be grateful too, as the poor thing is absolutely insane with grief right now. He actually killed himself so he could try and strong-arm the Boatman into “taking him to Cheeryman.” It didn’t work :P)
I’m surprisingly angry that my last constable died.
It is truly a unique ending to a fallen London story, which I appreciate, but still… Ach. That’s life.
–Speaking of Fate. Someone mentioned earlier that you got some Fate if you decided to pass on the rest of Family and Law and simply let the story end early on. Is this true? Because, if it is the case, I wish that Failbetter would at least TELL us so. …although I wouldn’t advise people to test that, since they’d be, you know, passing up on the rest of Family and Law.
[quote=Omega8520]I have to admit, I disagree with the reasoning behind the lack of resets. Yes, SFiG cannot be reset for Fate. Almost every other story can be, and the major gameplay downside to it can be reset via Fate. The Waltzing Duke and his daughter (another estranged father/daughter pair)? Easily rechooseable for Fate. Who you sided with in the Box? Fate. Hell, a loved one of yours has died, and your major reason to go to the Neath is to get revenge for them? Some Fate, and all of a sudden, a huge gem is your driving goal. Having a story who’s best result is dependant on passing a luck check, and then removing the reset option, does seem a little disingenuous when you can pay Fate in order to get the best result of the Jack storyline. The lack of consistency in choices is the major problem for me here, I feel. The reset is gone so as to not "compromising their experience of the story[color=000000]", and yet paying Fate to get the best result of a story is a common practise?
I apologise if this post has come across as a little confrontaional, because it is not meant to be. But I just sincerely do not understand why this choice is made in this situation, and not in others. Especially when the reset option existed, and has then been removed.
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This was my thinking as well. I would like to see the decision to remove the story being able to be reset reconsidered.
I too would like to be able to reset the story. And only partially so I could try to get both companions :P
There should be a very low chance of both of them passing out before either drinks the poison. Specifically, after the third round.
Would this be as impactful? No. Would it be hilarious? Yes.
The ending gave me a rather unpleasant realization about the Last Constable.
She refuses to send you an invitation to the Cheery Man’s funeral if you rig the match in her favor.
This is due to the Cheery Man dying, which she knows is a potential consequence of the game. She’s angry due to the fact you stole the element of chance.
In the end, the whole point of the vendetta is that the Constable is corrupt- not due to money, but due to her emotions. Her conflict is not about justice, as she is perfectly alright with leaving no one to oppose the Cheery Man and his brutality, but about vengeance.
I feel that this ended pretty badly.
I’m…a bit confused, to be honest.
Under what circumstances, exactly, do you get invited to the funeral? I didn’t rig the match, didn’t choose Double Or Nothing, didn’t intervene–Just did everything they asked.
I’m glad everyone else is getting a second chance, should they want it. Regardless of my personal opinion about the pacing, structure, etc, I think I’ll stick with the result I got. Max wouldn’t have done anything differently, and having Cheery saved by the RNG feels…cheap.
/SpenttheentirenightmourningCriminalDaddywithEvanescenceblaringinthebackground
edited by Slyblue on 10/20/2017
[quote=Ixc]The ending gave me a rather unpleasant realization about the Last Constable.
She refuses to send you an invitation to the Cheery Man’s funeral if you rig the match in her favor.
This is due to the Cheery Man dying, which she knows is a potential consequence of the game. She’s angry due to the fact you stole the element of chance.
In the end, the whole point of the vendetta is that the Constable is corrupt- not due to money, but due to her emotions. Her conflict is not about justice, as she is perfectly alright with leaving no one to oppose the Cheery Man and his brutality, but about vengeance.
I feel that this ended pretty badly.[/quote]
I don’t think that she’s corrupt; IMO she’s straight as a die. But she’s stuck in a loop. There ain’t no justice in FL, and she signed up with an organisation that turned out to protect the nebulous and complex machinations of the Masters (though I don’t think all of the Special Constables are individually corrupt, either). No wonder she rounded on her father, who’s straightforwardly bad – but in a very human way. But no wonder she also turns on you, if you decide to arrange for his death, and I don’t think the Cheery Man would be any keener on someone who pulled the same dodge in his favour.
‘Family and Law’ always came across as a slow-building tragedy that it’s impossible for either party to avoid, even if one of them honestly tries to (in the early half, the Cheery Man can have his own daughter shangaied – with the player’s help), or a stranger intervenes (if you instead favour the Constable in the early half, then it’s you who persuades her to flee London).
On the Constable’s side of the later story, she gets as far as Caution on the Elder Continent – a hotbed of prophecy, and rather too close for comfort to someone else’s problem child – then mysteriously learns she must return. Tragedies need inevitability, and a sense that it’s gods, not devils, who kill us for their sport.
Which leaves the player somewhat at a loss, like Hamlet’s Horatio, advising and abetting either the Cheery Man or the Constable as they hurtle towards a terminal reckoning. In the first half of the story, you could switch loyalties between the Constable and the Cheery Man repeatedly. It’s IMO not a bad plotting decision that in the second half, your loyalties don’t make a scrap of difference to who wins – though I’m glad FB removed the odd feeling of being Hexed Horatio, an active jinx to whoever you chose to support.
But if you can reset the story, and therefore have the power to scorn fate (rather than Fate), then you’re not Horatio at all. So I somehow can’t quite bring myself to reset it, even though I know I currently could. I know other people feel differently, and they’re not wrong either. But every so often a game has to have the potential to slap the player in the face, with fair warning and no takebacks.