Ballpark Costs of SMEN?

I’m very interested in exploring the SMEN story but I’ve heard it requires a great deal of sacrifice. While I want to avoid spoilers on the details of the plot I’d like a ballpark of exactly how damaging the story is. Like is this something that is going to cripple my account severely forever? I just became a POSI in the last month and am concerned at the thought that it might render my character unplayable. If it’s just going to cost me a month’s worth of echos/actions and some slight maiming then while it’s rather scary I’ll probably give it a shot anyway just to see the writing while it is still available. I also wonder if there are certain character progressions that it might be better to avoid before SMEN rather than buying them just to sacrifice them a couple days later, or if for a character of my development (average stat level around 110, exploring University and Mahogany Hall and just about to go out to sea) attempting to complete SMEN might not even be feasible given my current resources.

If this sort of question is not vague enough for forum standards please let me know as I’d rather delete it than break the rules.

The question is vague enough, the problem is rather that it’s mostly unanswerable! ;)

You see, SMEN wasn’t completed the first time round. Far from it. So it’s impossible to tell whether you’re well equipped to complete it.

Regarding the &quothow damaging is it?&quot question: apparently, it used to be very damaging. But that was largely due to it being extremely buggy. You see, it was unofficial, unsupported content that the founder of Failbetter wrote in his spare-time and everybody was playing it at their own risk.

This time it will be official, supported content. It was also said that it would probably be &quotdefanged&quot or &quottoned down&quot compared to the first time.

But at this point, nobody knows anything specific!

:edit: This post will give you an idea of how SMEN was - but it contains many spoilers.
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016

Progressively and massively damaging. I mean, this is the story where you could pay Fate to permanently delete your character.

While I can’t say that it never would have adversely affected my Seeker for the most part the damage was pretty well contained. It’s a pretty wild ride and there was definitely one part of it where I had to change my entire playstyle drastically until it was over, but apart from that I never noticed the damage. Well, apart from the stat damage, but that’s recoverable.

(i’m almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)

From what you guys have said… It seems we don’t know, but judging from what happended last time, it’s more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?

I haven’t played SMEN, but I understand it also unlocked a torment destiny that provided -3 to all stats. Which is actually more than a -3 drain, since you’re also giving up the boosts other destinies provide.

I don’t know much about that though, or whether the torment destiny was mandatory if you were seeking.

Torment is optional, though it was the first source of that particular candle. My Seeker has it, though I never equipped the item so the stat drops don’t affect him.

[quote=Harlocke]I haven’t played SMEN, but I understand it also unlocked a torment destiny that provided -3 to all stats. Which is actually more than a -3 drain, since you’re also giving up the boosts other destinies provide.

I don’t know much about that though, or whether the torment destiny was mandatory if you were seeking.[/quote]

What’s a &quotDestiny&quot? Also, is that basically a… &quoti have shadowy 150 but because of my destiny, its 147 and will ALWAYS be 3 below what i have&quot?

[quote=spader623](i’m almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)

From what you guys have said… It seems we don’t know, but judging from what happended last time, it’s more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?[/quote]
From what I’ve seen and read, what you should at least be prepared for is
a) massive stat-losses - literally massive, like halving your stats from 100 to 50
b) getting bombarded with Menaces, both by the game itself (non-discardable menace cards) and other players (via social actions)
c) loss of (very) valuable items
d) loss of ALL your lodgings(!!!) or Connections/Favours(/Renown?)

There might have been the occasional content that Seekers were locked out of, but generally you were able to play the rest of the game like everyone else. While getting kicked in the teeth. ;)
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016

[quote=spader623][quote=Harlocke]I haven’t played SMEN, but I understand it also unlocked a torment destiny that provided -3 to all stats. Which is actually more than a -3 drain, since you’re also giving up the boosts other destinies provide.

I don’t know much about that though, or whether the torment destiny was mandatory if you were seeking.[/quote]

What’s a &quotDestiny&quot? Also, is that basically a… &quoti have shadowy 150 but because of my destiny, its 147 and will ALWAYS be 3 below what i have&quot?[/quote]

A destiny is an item slot. You can only fill it during the holidays, and you can only have one. Most provide +5 to a stat. And yes, it will always be 3 below if you choose the torment destiny.

Read this for a list of the old costs:
http://fallenlondon.wikia.com/wiki/Seeking_Mr_Eaten’s_Name_(Guide)

[quote=phryne][quote=spader623](i’m almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)

From what you guys have said… It seems we don’t know, but judging from what happended last time, it’s more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?[/quote]
From what I’ve seen and read, what you should at least be prepared for is
a) massive stat-losses - literally massive, like halving your stats from 100 to 50
b) getting bombarded with Menaces, both by the game itself (non-discardable menace cards) and other players (via social actions)
c) loss of (very) valuable items

There might have been the occasional part of a story that seekers couldn’t play, but generally you were able to play the rest of the game content like everyone else. Just getting kicked in the teeth occasionally. ;)
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016[/quote]

All of that i can live with… Except A. That’s… Kinda ridiculous, so i expect that to be part of being &quotdefanged&quot.

B and C arent fun, but its things im perfectly ok with considering they’re just things i can get again.

I doubt A will be one of the things defanged. They put a lot of things like that in the previous version.

If you have to ask, you can’t afford it.

[quote=spader623](i’m almost exactly in the same boat as the topic creator, POSI, 110ish stats, etc etc)

From what you guys have said… It seems we don’t know, but judging from what happended last time, it’s more so resources and items that youll lose, rather then literally screwing up your character to the point of being locked out of specific things?[/quote]
With the exception of selling your soul- and perhaps abslution ablution- you cannot get locked out of anything by seeking the name. That said, it loves to fill you with inconveniences, there were two menace cards, you went through searing enigmas like water (7, minimum), you had to get a waxwail knife while anyone and everyone seeking could steal your entire stack of prize tokens for a single searing enigma. You got two undiscardable penalty cards added to the deck

Perhaps I am a Master Eaten snob. The story’s core is loss and self-harm. If you do not wish to make great sacrifices for the sake of a strange madness, striving to lose more and more toward no purpose, then do not Seek.

But yes, most sacrifices were reversible with effort. Stains on Your Soul, Reputation: Abomination, and Destiny: Torment did demonstrate that the story was willing to mark you permanently, but no one knows how far the new Seeking will go.

Very well said! We should put up banners with these words in all SMEN threads, now that more and more excited new players are being drawn here like frost-moths to a Candle; just so they know what they’re signing up to (even though I expect FB to put the most severe warnings imaginable into the content).

Here’s another very good summary:

[color=#009900]It’s not, by design, slippery and sacrificial, it’s deliberately unfair. [/color][color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]The warnings are there for a reason. [/color][color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]Let me go on record (not for the first time): if you take this path, you are more likely to fail than to succeed, through no fault of your own. You may get an invitation later, but if so then accepting it will probably lead to later, worse failure. [/color][color=rgb(0, 153, 0)] [/color][color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]If you’re irritated with me or with the game right now, you will only get more irritated later on, and I recommend you get out now.[/color][color=rgb(0, 153, 0)] [/color][/quote]
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016

[quote=phryne]

:edit: This post will give you an idea of how SMEN was - but it contains many spoilers.
edited by phryne on 6/8/2016[/quote]

As curious as I am, I don’t think my character could ever bring herself to do this. She’s far too materialistic and proud of her achievements to risk it all on scraps of information.

I think the only way she could be tempted is if it was to help another.

Snip[/quote]
All of that i can live with… Except A. That’s… Kinda ridiculous, so i expect that to be part of being &quotdefanged&quot.

B and C arent fun, but its things im perfectly ok with considering they’re just things i can get again.[/quote]
Edit: What I meant to say (and utterly failed to) was mostly that SMEN is/was mostly end-game content at a point in Fallen London’s development when there was less content all round. This meant that costs were mostly calibrated for near-cap players, not so much for people just starting to really explore. There is a ton of game to explore and a ton of lore hinted at everywhere, so you shouldn’t necessarily feel obligated to begin it any time soon.

It’s kind of funny, that’s the one that becomes the most affordable the longer you play. Losing all your lodgings (even if acquired at Sackmas) is just an enormous cost that dwarfs stat drain entirely.

When at cap, dropping to 100 isn’t as crippling as from 100 to 50. And after all, stats raise themselves just by taking actions you were going to take anyway.
edited by MrBurnside on 6/8/2016
edited by MrBurnside on 6/8/2016

Fortunately the Lodgings cost isn’t mandatory. It’s that, losing all Connections (and presumably Renown now), or paying Fate to lose your Destiny.