An agreement amongst seekers

Bravo Mr. Kennedy. With an incredibly simple edition to this game you’ve managed to create both a fascinating scenario for game theorists and an attack that is more frightening and brutal than murder. Bravo.

The obvious strategy is obvious: wait until you have both a free attack and path to the third candle, then use both at once. You need to hope that the attack is successful enough to get the candle, but with the candle you will be immune to further attack (a particularly clever twist in the game, Mr. Kennedy). You must act fast, and you must act now. If you wait too long, you may be attacked, and if you wait very long there will be no one left to attack. They will all be out to zee, or they will already have their prize.

The counter-strategy is also obvious: when the people are given an opportunity for chaos, they can only avoid it through good governance. Government can be imposed from within or without. It hardly seems like an outside force will impose order, so we must do it ourselves.

I suggest an agreement amongst reasonable citizens of the Neath, even if we do happen to be damned: FOR WHOMEVER BETRAYS ONE OF US, A BETRAYAL WILL BE RETURNED TEN-FOLD. IGNORANCE OF THE AGREEMENT IS NO EXCUSE. Keep in mind that this is only the third candle. Likely there will be four more. Even if you are protected in the present, you will not be protected in the future.

Anyone who finds this agreement sensible should speak up. Any seekers who don’t will be deemed untrustworthy, in this regard anyways. If you are part of this agreement and you are betrayed, then it will be all of our responsibilities to seek retribution.

Finally, with this agreement in hand we may achieve that which we seek in a civilized manner. No doubt some will want to rid themselves of their burden, and for those that do there will be a large number willing to pay, perhaps handsomely, for certain tokens.

Now, enjoy the hunt fellow seekers.

The following is a list of those who have signed on to this agreement:

Alexander Feld, Allanon, Anstruther Barron, AwayMeBoys, an_ocelot, Blackleaf, Cochimetl, Corran, Danae, Delmar Tramontane, Dharlome, devoted_pupa, Doomlewa, dov, dragonridingsorceress, Emain Ablach, Esterhazy, Erik Vimes, Guy Scrum, HaapaPuu, Hamete, Harrison Snyde, helix, Jack Vaux-Harrowden, Jay Eclipse, Jeff Crowl, John Pennywise, Katherine Navane, Kerim, Lady Ciel, Lady Red, Little The, Maerion, Mac Trilby, Mr. Green, Nigel Overstreet, NinjaComedian, Philip Kaiser-Parlette, Spacemarine9, Tesuji, Urthdigger, WallofIllusion, xKiv, Zyxx

And for reference, the following is a list of high-level seekers whose intentions are either unclear or unscrupulous (provided by none other than Mr. Eaten itself):

amaresu, Asclepius Unbound, Baron Electricpants, Casidy, curious_fellow, Denubis Banere, Doctor Ezekiel Wright, elvortel, false_negative, FPF1987, garcia1000, garcia1000, imeja, Inpiun, Jacob Stadtfeld, James_Baker, Jarenth, Justin Tremont, kakkoi_hakujin, Keraslyn, Kisigar, Litha Braun, M_L_G, Mary Paine, mcruthless, Moomin, Mr_Slaves, Narcess, Nicholas Bjorge, piinstripeowl, Sean Harley, Septimus Hodge, Shadowhand, The Dave, Vyrlokar, Zmflavius

If you’d like to be moved from one list to the other, say so below and/or PM me.

A list of betrayers:

Petter Björklund (betrayed Lady Ciel, Katherine Navane, Corran, Blackleaf, Little The)
Jacob Kiner Elliott / Mr. Cheshire (betrayed lady ciel, Corran)
Howard John Abrahall (betrayed Jeff Crowl, Zyxx, Corran)
Justin Tremont (betrayed Allanon Kisigar)
bjorntfh (betrayed Doomlewa)
Zmflavius (betrayed Esterhazy, Allanon Kisigar)
RayDNoper (betrayed Jeff Crowl, Harrison Snyde)
Dolan (betrayed Urthdigger, Anstruther Barron, Kerim. Dolan has been very successful in the game of knife and candle, and may have many tokens. If you can find him, I highly recommend using an enigma. Furthermore, Dolan used his betrayal to get a second waxwail knife. Bad form Dolan.)
Nicholas Bjorge (betrayed an_ocelot)
Denubis Banere (betrayed Devoted_pupa)
curious_fellow (betrayed Allanon Kisigar)
Jacob Stadtfeld (betrayed Hamete, Devoted_pupa)
Shadowhand (betrayed an_ocelot, Devoted_pupa. Likely aligned with another betrayer.)
Inpiun (betrayed Tesuji, Anstruther Barron, Harrison Snyde, Allanon Kisigar)
William Dawson III / You Millions (betrayed Guy Scrum, later made amends)

If you see a betrayer, stab him/her/it. I’ll keep the most recent or most egregious betrayers at the top of this list, so focus your stabbing and stealing powers there. Don’t forget to let them know why they’re being stabbed. They may try to seek forgiveness from the one they betrayed and remove themselves from this list, but that is at the betrayed’s discretion.

Further edits:
A new line of attack is open as of November 23, 2013. I am extending this agreement to cover that attack as well. If you strongly disagree with this extension, let it be known and I will gladly remove you from the list (although you will thereafter be marked as a deserter). If many disagree with this extension, I will abandon it and rethink my methods. I would like to keep some semblance of democracy, after all.

An emptiness has provided us (how can an emptiness provide?) with the following list of names:

Adahn, alarmallama, Alberto Robert, Alexander Feld, Alexandra Vesey, Alice Darkmoor, Alistair Cookie, Allanon Kisigar, allochthonous, Alonois, amaresu, Amenell, an_ocelot, Andrew P Mosiman, Andy Crow, Anstruther Barron, Apostrophe Smith, ApprenticeEvie, arashi_neko, arsenykz, Asclepius Unbound, Aspeon, Aysez, badpatient, Baron Electricpants, Bell Darling, Ben, benneh123, Biffo99, bjorntfh, Blackleaf, Bluerps, Britianna Mainare, Brom Girvan, Buzzlecroft, Byron Salisbury, caeliat, Calico Jack, Casidy, Chaoseed, Chris Fenton, Cole Behrens, crabbadon, Crayll, Culmen, curious_fellow, Cybele the Shadowy, dafuloth, Dammitty Jones, DarkShadow, David Pone, Delmar Tramontane, Denubis Banere, Derek Williams, devoted_pupa, Dharlome, Dirae Erinyes, dna_cowboys, Doc Smiley, Doctor Ezekiel Wright, Dolan, Donovan Sionnach, dov, dracjr, Duggan EE, echo_theodor, Edwin Graves, Eliza Cromlech, EljuaLey, elvortel, Emain Ablach, Entevir, Eric Vimes, Erik Olin, ErisFnord, Esterhazy, false_negative, Fool Lardington, FoxHope, FPF1987, garcia1000, Gentleman Strange, George Emery, Georgie Walden, GilCnaan, Gizmo the 2nd, grouchotendency, Grue, Guy Scrum, HaapaPuu, Hamete, Hammond, Hannah McKay, Harrison Snyde, Hei_Sullivan, helix, Howard John Abrahall, humming_frog, Ian Hiorns, Illessa, imeja, India_Hand, Indigo Shnell, Inpiun, Iris Savine-Mercatur, Isobel Valentine, Jack Sheffield, Jack Vaux-Harrowden, Jacob Majikes, Jacob Stadtfeld, James Merry, James_Baker, Jane Narbon, Jarenth, Jason Hartley, Jay Eclipse, Jeff Crowl, Jesse J Clark, John Pennywise, Jonne Kolima, Joshua Temple, Justin Tremont, Justsomeguy2, jwbcox, kakkoi_hakujin, Katherine Dybala, Katherine Navane, Keraslyn, Kerim, Kermitron, Kevin, Kiyara, Koji Arala, Kurt Stilwell, kynalvarus, lady ciel, Lady Red, laenmirr, Lalia, Lavinia Lee, leatherdykeuk, lemurcatta, leporidae menk, lgladen, Litha Braun, Little The, Lord Anar, Lord Crumbledon, lraszewski, Luri Levin, M. Factamore, M_L_G, Mac Trilby, Machine, Madify Marley, Maelle, Maerion, Magician, Marius Salsbury, Martin Schmidt, Mary Paine, Matt Goerwell, McCrapShot, mcruthless, metonym, miasmay, Michael Liptai, MidnightVoyager, misterarendt_failbetter, mlg4fl, Moomin, Morgon, Mr Bentram, Mr. Cheshire, Mr. Green, Mr_Slaves, MrEdwardNigma, muninnhuginn, mustelid, Narcess, Nezum, Nicholas Bjorge, Nigel Overstreet, NinjaComedian, NiteBrite, nroahear, occulere, Olivia Coburn, One_Wing, Panthera_II, Paulihuse, peregryn, PetraBealer, Petter Björklund, Philippa Cox, PigAndDogAreHappyFriends, pinstripeowl, Polychrome, Prof. Katherine Holmes, pselac, radiofreelunch, random_gerbil, ratbag_77, RayDNoper, Reshemin, Rolias Watt, rowanleaves, Rusalotchka, Ryusui, Saharan, salirsalisco, Sarah Jean Brown, Scytale, Sebastian Cromwell, Septimus Hodge, Seras Chigwell, Seth Pincetich, Shadowhand, shirokitty, Sigr, Sir Edgington, Esquire, Skelly Wright, Sontara the Moldy, sophosmentis, sp1nweb, Spacemarine9, Swarley, Tesuji, ThatGuySacha, The Bathyscaphist, The Dave, The Duke of Pannekoeken, The Letter M, The Nemo, TheThirdPolice, ThingUTS, Thomas Ladegard, Thomwizard, Tophernator, turhansbeycmpny, Urthdigger, Vael Victus, Vaen, Valerie Kaplan, Vegalivia, Vicaem, Victor Gulenko, vixy, Vyrlokar, WallofIllusion, wavesandmoon, William Dawson III, WintersNight, Xaosopher, xKiv, ysadrel, Zmflavius, Zyxx.

This may or may not have something to do with the new attack. Be careful.
edited by Guy Scrum on 12/6/2013

Is betrayal only open to fellow Seekers, then? (I have seen only the end result, not the opportunity.) If so, then things look slightly less hopeless.

I believe so. I saw it on a regular attack card, but accidentally clicked away and lost it before I could examine it too closely. As before, there is a cost for the betrayer as well as the betrayed.

I’m afraid I don’t quite understand the full implications of this, as I’m still on the first candle. But, uh, your proposal sounds sensible! I guess I’ll sign up.

I attacked Mr.Green.I took 12 tokens, not enough for the candle and I assume, not a big amount for higher tier Wax an Cutlery Enthusiasts. I am currently at zee, but I don’t know how to proceed. Although, to be fair, I doubt Mr.Green would remain safe even without me, as I attacked before this thread or Mr. Eaten’s list.
edited by Devoted_pupa on 5/1/2013

Mr. Green is not part of this gentleman/woman/mollusk/ocelot’s agreement, and therefore is not safe anyways. At least, not yet. May I take your confession as a sign that you would like to be part of this truce?

I badly want to know the Name. (One of those who must know a story’s ending.) And I currently have no tokens. So betraying someone else would seem to be in my interests.

But I don’t want to play that kind of character, nor would I enjoy playing in that kind of environment. So I will gladly join this agreement, slow though it may make my progress.
edited by an_ocelot on 5/1/2013

I join this agreement as well, though it will only apply once I find three more people to help me aquire the first candle

Man, this Knife & Candle thing gets more interesting by the day.

(I’m not involved, just commenting)

Yes. It requires possession of St. Arthur’s candle yourself. The text is very explicit that the only defense is possession of St. C’s candle; I suspect that means that e.g. being at Zee is NOT going to be a defense. It would be good to be able to be a fly on FL’s server to observe the ensuing chaos, for sure…

At the cost of a Searing Enigma, the price of betrayal is too high when it does not bring me closer to the Name!(Silver Tokens? Really? Silver Tokens get you knives. Iron Tokens get you the Name!)

It says it only reaches to all of London, not all of the Neath. Being at Zee will prevent this attack.
edited by Sara Hysaro on 5/1/2013

As one who has been betrayed, and betrayed another in turn (sorry Nigel) - and found both experiences unpleasant, in their own fashion - is it too late to join this pact?

Also: I believe an Inquisitive band have made their own pact of non-aggression.

A radical proposal: why not nominate our own candidate, an Alpha Seeker who will continue? We could negotiate an orderly flow of tokens to a suitable candidate, rather than the current cut-throat melee. It would be entirely counter to the spirit of the Quest, an assertion of humanity in the face of inhuman forces. It could be marvellous.

Huh. I swear I checked the St. Cerise’s Candle option, but apparently I was not paying attention.

So okay, you can get a Knife by 77 silver tokens/theft, trade it in for 77 iron tokens, and then get a candle, or you could go straight to 77 iron tokens.

goes to edit prior post
edited by an_ocelot on 5/1/2013

I shall observe this phenomenon for now, but won’t commit to the agreement yet. I see no particular problem in using the Game of Knife and Candle to claim tokens from one another. It’s just a new twist on the striving that’s part of the game.

I also point out that there will not be a point where any of us are stranded entirely. Silver Tokens may be a nonrenewable resource, but Iron Knife tokens are added to the Game every day. This is not zero-sum.

You can’t get 77 Iron Knife Tokens through fighting alone at this point. You need the Silver Tokens to turn in the Knife that will give you the Iron Knife Tokens you need.
edited by Sara Hysaro on 5/1/2013

Oh, right, the cap. I should stop attempting to multitask today, huh? Perhaps we might get word whether the cap is permanent?

Ah, is the Iron Token cap just from fighting, or global? I had presumed it had been lifted.


I think it’s just from fighting, but I don’t think you’ll be able to get from 50 to 77 on Awards alone. Not realistically anyhow.

I am so, so far from the cap that I shall have to rely on other people’s reports to determine whether it is still in place, but I have a very nasty feeling that it is (and will be).