Acclaim/Shame Your Favourite Treasure (That You Didn't Pick)

Fallen London
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You know the one. The one that you stare at wistfully out the corner of your eye every time someone posts a fresh vanity screenshot related to it. The one that’s been quietly metastasizing into the desire to create an alt for a while, but ended up being edged out by your first (and possibly 2nd and 3rd) choices for a whole host of reasons.

I may as well start.

The Which: Your Spouse/Lover, Returned

The Why: It’s the single most genre-appropriate core motivation for a character to have. Namely chasing after the subterranean vampire who robbed you of your aggressively Victorian spouse who walked straight out of an oil painting into a penny dreadful. And later choosing to make a Faustian pact last minute to get said significant other back only to be sent hurtling back to square one by amnesia is exactly as pyrrhic of a resolution as you would expect from Fallen London.

Apart from which, as soon as I found out about the Cenotaphic style of the Hinterland City? I realized you could roleplay making the Manager of the Royal Beth’s attachment style look healthy by bringing your amnesiac spouse to a living city dedicated to memorializing their own tragic death (which they can’t recall).

The Why Not: …It’s the single worst treasure mechanically in the game. To a downright frustrating extent. You are basically left a casual acquaintance to your nearest and dearest. And besides? I know that FBG would never let me re-marry. Which would always be a downright heartbreaking disappointment… and a fun reason to leave the spouse slot determinedly blank in protest.

(If Rubbery Men are on the table as spousal options? Rekindling the fire with your Spouse/Lover as a literally Legendary Charisma shouldn’t be that hard.)

And for the record? I am aware that the amount of retooling/options/added content likely to be dished out for a given Treasure is a direct function of its popularity, and that the Spouse was tied for dead last in that race last I checked. But it’s equally true that an unpopular treasure is all-but-guaranteed to stay that way if it’s never given additional love to entice new players in that direction.

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In Bag a Legend, I wanted the Vake steed and thought (mistakenly) that I had arranged to obtain this. I saved the correct Vake version to deal with last and was planning to not kill this version to obtain the Vake steed. Unfortunately, there was some offshoot storyline in Parabola that I needed to take called something like, “Think in the midst of the hunt” and only by taking this option are you given the chance to not kill the last version of the Vake. This was not apparent to me so I ended up with no choice but to kill the 3rd Vake version (Curator Vake).

It probably says this in the BaL guide in the FL Wiki that I was following but I did not see it so I did not get the Vake steed I wanted :cry:

My shame is quite mundane compared to those generated by role-playing but it hurts nonetheless.

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Consolation prize: you’re now filthy rich.

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I felt filthy rich before. I wanted a Vake steed to ride and the monstrous anatomy boost. Also, I do not remember the details but I thought the Vake killing reward was not paid and, instead, I got a bunch of pats on the back and some sort of obligation or “leasehold” on various parts of London… which, along with an echo, will get me a cup of coffee in a cheap joint.

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As I understand it it’s like an all-purpose IOU that essentially makes it so that (within reason) the Bazaar can’t refuse you a favour. And the Bazaar might not be all powerful, but she’s a sufficiently big deal in-setting to make being able to tap her network as-needed an equally big deal.

It’s not a vampire dragon, but it’s not nothing.

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Hmmm… for an “all-purpose IOU” there are remarkably few places where you can actually collect on that IOU or “tap her network”.

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This one is super, duper obvious, but honest opinions and all.

The Which: The Robe of Mr. Cards

The Why: When your player character requested the Masters, acting in unison, for “Power” in as great an amount in both the letter and the spirit of the Marvellous could provide, this was their answer: To remake you as a higher being in every way, shape and form to humanity. To elevate you among their ranks, and stand apart from the petty human conflicts of London. And before that? To utterly terrify London’s populace with your close associations, your gradually remodelled physiology and your burgeoning grasp of what the credulous and ignorant would call miracles.

I’ve played Fallen London long enough to remember the old Master profiles. I’ve been one of them briefly, in dreams, one Christmas long ago. This opportunity is like being fed a slice of cake after years of starving in the desert. And while this seems like an afterthought compared to what it represents, it also unlocks more story options than any other in the game.

The Why Not: And yet, well. Ultimately, when you get right down to it what it actually does for you in the game is turn you into a gangly Renfield-looking fellow who the Masters can’t just shut the door on during their private discussions and occasionally gets flashes of insight when doing various things. But ultimately gets treated as something between a funny talking dog at best and a badly mannered baby cousin at worst.

The current event has hammered home that you are a long, LONG way from ever being treated as a true peer to the Masters, and until the century it takes for the transformation to take you’re not exactly a stunner by human standards either. Caught between two worlds and bound to neither, you lack an established area of aptitude to amass wealth beyond human measure and you lack the ability to just flip out and maul something. All you can do is continue those weekly trips to undergo painful Red Science experiments and learn things your human mind and body are poorly equipped to comprehend, let alone master (pun absolutely intended). What you CAN do reliably, repeatedly, without the patronage of the other Masters, is…bully children and one nun at card games. And the nun even has a chance of winning, humiliating the would-be transhuman pioneer. The power you were promised ultimately amounts to smoke and mirrors sponsored by the patronage of beings which at best view your transformation as a mere obligation of their entertainment and at worst consider your addition to their ranks a terrible mistake. Beings that have had a long time to adapt to their own agreements and bargains. Were the Marvellous ever to be dissolved by another player or were your amusement and utility ever to be outweighed by your inconvenience, it would be trivial for the united Masters millennia your senior to unmake you like their colleague Candles.

And to add insult to injury, it is VERY clear that for all their cunning, might and wisdom the Masters are far from truly powerful on the Great Chain. A century to join a tribe of hunter-peddlers? Given a decade to escape the Avid Horizon, London could potentially become a spacefaring power capable of fielding space trains that can hunt the Masters’ race with relative ease-even imprisoning at least one of the actual Masters.

It may not be the most popular Treasure for ideological reasons, but in the final analysis my Winged and Taloned Steed gives me far more power I can actually use with no strings attached than the title of Mr. Cards.

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Ask Captainbloodstorm how often he gets to ride his Vake Steed during the latest expansion.

(Everyone gets at least slightly screwed when it comes to opportunities to actually use their chosen Treasure in-game. The most mileage I get out of my giant phoque-u to Mr Stones by far is using it to grow lab supplies. That’s about it unless it’s that time of the month.)

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They’re the hustlers of the Great Chain. Which isn’t the top, but it’s far from the bottom either. Think of it this way: when the goods you’re peddling are cities and destinies? Being in customer service is a much less menial vocation.

And honestly, the ludicrous jump in overall firepower between Fallen London/Sunless Seas and Sunless Skies is the main thing that puts me off of it.

It undoes so much of the work done in the previous 2 games to reinforce that beings higher on the Chain are objectively more significant than their lessers to a literally cosmic extent. To the point where even their deaths are an enormously big deal (see: Mrs Eaten/Veils/Cups) that leave behind an equally massive mark on reality itself.

Then Sunless Skies rolls along and turns Curators into Goombas. Not a fan, TBH.

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God, just.
Just ONCE.
I would like the acknowledgement that this great hulking airship is unnecessary, and I had more than one way of dealing with a high fall.

It just adds insult to injury this expansion introduced arguably the most powerful flying thing the game lets you encounter in person, and “Prepare for airborne jousting” isn’t an option. However doomed that option might have been under normal circumstances.

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I actually never read it this way. The Neath is a very different place from the High Wilderness. I mean, run around in the Neath and shoot a human being. Yep, they will just come right back. Not so easy to kill at all. But then if you go to the surface, one harmless little bullet is more than enough to very easily and permanently dispose of a person.

I read things this way: the Neath is very strange and different from other places in many ways. Plus, I believe that the Masters in the Neath are “relatively” high up on the Chain down here due to the absence of those much higher up on the Chain. Which might give them more power to shape reality in their favour. I mean, put a mayor in a town hall and they have a lot of power there. But when they go to a parliament? They are just an unimportant mayor with very little power. [Please don’t test the analogy too hard, all analogies break at some point.]

Back to the actual topic:
The Which: The Robes of Mr Cards
The Why: My character wants to change, to become more then they are, to transcend human limitations. Plus they like games. And Red Science is their favourite Advanced Skill.

The Why Not: They do not wish to have power over others. They are terribly democratic and despise the very notion of a being having power over others. And that is what the Masters are all about. They just see other beings as tools and servants, at best. My character does not want to endorse these tyrants in any way, least of all being one of them. They will find other ways to change.

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Power is the ability to impose change on the world around you.

Having power that doesn’t impact other’s lives is power left unused. Period.

(It’s a bit like asking for a weapon that doesn’t cause harm. That’s kinda the point, so your only actual option is to just never pull the trigger.)

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Yes and no.
A knife gives you the power to prepare food or to stab someone. The power the Masters offer is specifically designed to hurt others. It is meant to restrict those lower on the Chain and take away from them. Contrast this use of power for example with the Creditor, who offers to use his power to support others.
That is the point I am talking about.
I am not asking them for a weapon. I want tools. But they only offer me a weapon.

And by joining them I would support their rule, even if only marginally, which is definitely doing more than just never pulling the trigger. It is at the very least saying that I would be okay with them using weapons on others. Which goes against my character.

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In what way? They upgrade your anatomy and teach you High Wilderness finance. What you do afterwards is entirely up to you.

And nowhere does it say that you have to play nice with your fellow Masters or support their schemes. They certainly don’t.

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I don’t believe you have a choice but to play nice with them: as had been pointed out here before, they are still wayyyyyy above you even after you start your transformation and could very much end you. You try to get ahead to a point they don’t want you to get to? You try to screw them over?

BOOM

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Sure you do. Pick the Robe, then choose literally any choice in any story branch to spite them. You can arrange Destiny itself to make sure your transformation still goes off without a hitch.

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No, you don’t have to. But, it is a bit like saying political party A has evil goals and should not be supported but then joining them and trying to get into parliament for them. It looks like you are one of them. Thus, you are, to some extent, endorsing them and their actions.

They don’t just turn you into a Curator. They make you a Master of the Bazaar. That comes with dominion over some aspect of London and their entire system is designed to restrict others and gain profits of their backs (extensive tax systems, special constables, making everything illegal that could challenge their status). They make you part of that system.

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Said Master’s purview is gambling. IE: literally the only enterprise where people have to voluntarily choose to give you their money for wholly frivolous or foolish reasons.

You don’t take anything from anyone that they didn’t choose to risk specifically to court the thrilling possibility of loss.

Big shrug from me, but you do you.

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Yeah okay! Haven’t got my treasure yet+ I’m not in The end game, so I Can’t argue with that. It’s just that what you said sounded weird to me and i wanted to ask about it.

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“A Chilly Future” consists entirely of Destiny options wherein you are a fully transformed Master car pooling with the Bazaar to meet the Sun. You don’t even have to pick the Robe to get that outcome, it just ties-in neatly with said outcome.

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