Uncovering the Neath’s mysteries was one of my favourite activities many years ago when Echo Bazaar began. I would love to recapture that feeling, and I’m sure many of you are a lot more knowledgeable than I am. There are many things to discuss, big and small (and I should really think about that Mystery tab soon).
Let’s skip the spoiler tags and assume this whole thread will be full of secrets. In addition to discussing these, feel free to add your own questions — if the thread gets unwieldy I’ll curate the list by editing this post (which is why the numbering gets out of order).
NOTE: I will no longer be updating this post. Instead see this google sheet. This post and the thread below will still contain more details than the sheet.
UNANSWERED MYSTERIES:
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Who wrote “A proposal to ban black-painted ships from the river, written in a cramped hand on scented letter-paper” and why? UPDATE: It is perhaps relevant that the phrase "a world painted black" appears in reference to Surface anarchists and Night-Liberators
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Why is the Banded Prince’s seat of power called the Resplendent Court of the Wakeful Eye? And who originally built this crumbled palace?
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What exactly is the Red Book of the Presbyterate? And what to make of its phrase "When we leave the light, we encounter the darkness. When we leave the darkness, we do not always encounter light."? UPDATE from Grumpy_Kong: Perhaps this phrase is a literal dig at the poor quality of other Neathlight compared to the Mountain’s luminance.
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What is a proper translation for the weird little thieves’ proverb "Downstairs for the crushers, upstairs for the push, and the roof for the windering"?
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Do all Clay Men have names? We’ve met Norbert and Jasper and Frank but it seems likely this only applies to the more human-adjacent. It’s hard to tell with FL’s naming style so I’m wondering if this is discussed more explicitly somewhere.
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Can sentient nonhumans or Drownis be members of the Church in Fallen London, according to official policy? Asked by evergreenmonster
OLD MYSTERIES
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LIKELY ANSWERED MYSTERIES:
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Why do the Clay Men want to spread horrifying tales of Polythreme? ("MORE OF YOU KNOW OF THE TRUE NATURE OF POLYTHREME,’ says a Clay Man, next time you visit. ‘THIS IS GOOD.’ ") UPDATES from Optimatum & JainaEgo: The motive is possibly a commitment to accuracy rather than a desire to make Polythreme seem scary. Alternatively, perhaps they wish to motivate do-gooders to help more Clay Men leave Polythreme for London.
2. Why is the Fathomking called His Complexity by Drownies and Dockers? His whim is legendary, but does anyone know a more detailed story? ANSWERED by Optimatum: The title fits his mutating physiology as well as his behavior; this seems sufficient to explain it. -
The Firebrand mentions the alchemist Mynsicht and (presumably the poet) "Winstanley’s patroness" discussing the Nadir. Are these just a sprinkling of real names to add depth, or is Failbetter referencing specific statements? And who was Winstanley’s patroness anyway? EDIT: Actually, the revolutionary Digger Gerrard Winstanley is a better fit than the poet, given the Firebrand’s affiliation. This is confirmed by GW’s "mystic aristocrat" contact Lady Eleanor Davies, who wrote books of prophecy. I doubt there’s anything specific to find here, but if anyone wants to dig through some strange old texts it could be fun…
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Why does exactly one spire of the Bazaar lack carved Correspondence sigils? The Master who meets you at this spire, at the end of the University murder mystery story, speaks in a high pitched whisper — not sure which this is but we can rule out Iron and Pages. (BONUS fun question: the stairs of this spire are built for claws, not feet. What do such stairs look like? Are they cylinders rather than flat, or even just airy cylindrical rungs arranged in a stair shape?) ANSWERED by JainaEgo and DuneTheWanderer: There is likely no special significance to the empty spire assuming the spires are the blank pages for the Bazaar to write its messages for transport. Perhaps the Bazaar grew/constructed this spire after or shortly before its arrival in the Neath.
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The tomb-colonist moth transformation is apparently a self-directed "sidestep on the Great Chain" and nothing to do with the Flukes or other powers. Asked by Grumpy_Kong, answered by HeirOfLight. Update by me: Researching this, I discovered that the Most-Moth is described as a "gift" (possibly a sarcastic use of the word) from the Mountain to Lorenzo the Almost Dead Man, i.e. one of the Seven Against Nidah who stormed that city to take back immortality. Are all moths gifts of the mountain, much like the more straightforward type of immortality? Or did the Mountain use an existing phenomenon to punish or reward this fellow?
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I was thinking about one mystery answer the other day, about how Sir Stamford Raffles brought the tigers to the labyrinth. What bothered me is the fact Raffles died before the fall. So does it just mean by founding the ZSL he brought the tigers? Why the specific answer? Where did the tigers even come from? Is the tiger population in the labyrinth a mix of Surface tigers and Elder Continent tigers? Or maybe just EC tigers? Did they even have tigers before the fall? Asked by admdiamond. Answered by JainaEgo & Optimatum & rahv7 & me: Varchas (or its settlers) came from the surface long ago (independent of the Bazaar) from somewhere in Asia. The tigers down here have a large population and a long history with the Fingerkings, so it seems likely that this distant event is when the first tiger population was introduced to the Elder Continent. It’s also possible that the first cats came from the Mountain of Light’s Garden, as humans and Snuffers seem to have, but there’s no direct evidence either way. As for Sir Raffles, he may have found the Neath before London fell, but even if not, he would not be the first Fallen London character whose biography differed slightly from the source material. I also ran across a reference that suggests tigers are potentially (but not necessarily) even older than Varchas: they once ruled one of the Presbyterate’s seventy-seven kingdoms.
FULLY ANSWERED MYSTERIES:
4. How did the phrase "The Lao—" end before it was interrupted by a torn page?
("More rarefied and elaborate roles? The last page in the bundle has been torn half-across. It reads, ‘The Lao—’ ") ANSWERED by suinicide: the unreleased profession Laocoönian, of which we know little
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The Revolutionaries use the Bach cantata "Wachet Auf" to deliver signals to sleeper agents. Unless there’s some deeper layer here, this is due to its English name "Sleepers Wake". This one was easy to solve myself, but I wanted to share an example of Failbetter’s wonderful attention to detail.
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Does Abstraction affect Unaccountably Peckish, or the compulsion to Seek? A heavily stained soul is required for Seeking, but as far as I know you can then sell it and keep going. Is this ever discussed more explicitly? ANSWERED by cathyr19355, hekazu, and REDACTED: devils refuse to purchase stained souls and even have an adverse physical reaction to them
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Another easily answered but fun reference: the reference to a court case "R v Malphas" refers to a Great Prince of Hell from the demonological text the Lesser Key of Solomon
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The White is a Judgement spy master, who seeks the Counsel of Peace (extinction of suns?) as preferable to the changes or extinctions sought by the Liberation of Night. Info from Alexis here unavailable in-game Asked by MastrTMF, answered by rahv7 & Peridigital
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The oft-referenced marble shipments to the Tomb Colonies are used to build the Grand Sanatorium, an evil place where the most decrepit of Tomb Colonists are housed for their final, endless decay. Asked by Grumpy_Kong
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What do the flukes get out of the various bad things that happen to the Bazaar in the various spoilery fates and Sunless Seas content? I mean, it seems they got exactly what they wanted out of the bargain… Asked by Grumpy_Kong. Answered by A Nice Friend & illuminati swag: The Bazaar abandoned the Flukes and may have forbid them from interfering in matters of love and stories. The mutual animosity also stems from the Flukes’ alliance with Mr Candles, who became Mr Eaten due to the other Masters’ betrayal.
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Is the thief-of-faces a Fluke project gone and set itself up as a major player? Did he most recently steal Salt’s face and that’s why no one has seen It around for a while? Asked by Grumpy_Kong. Answered by suinicide, JainaEgo, St Arthur: The Lorn-Flukes did create the Thief-of-Faces, and it does have major ambitions: specifically, it stole a piece of the Mountain of Light to make Mount Nomad, for which the Mountain imprisoned it in Flint, but it later escaped. Salt probably vanished into the East; as far as we know the Thief-of-Faces was not involved there.
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Why is Storm in the Neath, what is its purpose, why is it so angry, and how did it die? Asked by Carbattle; answered by JainaEgo and rahv7: Based on the interpretation that Storm is "the Hunter" in the play The Seventh Letter (and the line "Ah, were it only my unfettered choice. But I owe him his hunts and the joys of his voice."), Storm arrived in the Neath to enforce the Judgements’ laws, but has allowed the Bazaar to continue its plot with a seven city limit. It is unknown how it died and what exactly death means for it — though its thoughts can have strange effects on our dreams — but you might be angry too if you were dead, or if you were a space dragon cop. A Nice Friend speculates that suicide may have been its only merciful alternative to punishing the Bazaar.
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Why the heck does the Scuttling Squad (or perhaps some other rats) send people Venge-Rat corpses filled with diamonds with notes saying, "DONE BECAUSE WE ARE TOO MENNY"? asked by DuneSabaku; answered by Barse: a reference to a pretty tragic bit in Jude the Obscure - why the rats are doing it, though, I’ve no idea. Maybe there are just too many of them? :P
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What does the royal family eat? asked by evergreenmonster; Answered by suinicide & JainaEgo: Raw goat. Honey. Wine. Possibly worse. JainaEgo also vaguely remembers the possibility of cannibalism but isn’t certain of the memory.
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In the Salt ambition in Sunless Sea, you (sorta?) become Salt by taking his name in Frostfound. Cormatron asks why you still have Salt’s yearning if the Cladery Heir removes your earlobe and therefore your restlessness. I have no answer to this but I’m putting it under ‘fully solved’ anyway because I doubt this is anything more than a minor plot hole.
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Why are moon pearls useful for clocks? Asked by evergreenmonster, answered by me: The appearance of moon-pearls changes predictably over time to match the phases of the moon, which seems useful for a timekeeping device.
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So if death doesnt happen in the 'neath how does aging work? Do people age slower, not at all, what? Asked by evergreenmonster, answered by me: People continue to age, although I get the impression the decay is more about accumulated damage and a reduced ability to recover from wounds. Eventually you become a tomb-colonist, and eventually the tomb-colonists who do not find a better ending start to lose their ability to speak, to see, etc.
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edited by TheThirdPolice on 4/5/2018
edited by TheThirdPolice on 4/5/2018
edited by TheThirdPolice on 7/21/2018