There has to be a better way than upsetting people that way.
I agree, which is why I suggested the idea of a second-prize – which certainly could involve a story just as meaningful, or more.
I’ll start by saying that the change to the melting, while annoying isn’t upsetting me overly. However, I also was aiming for this tattoo because I want something to actually be able to commemorate my Noman. To me, it’s the most moving story in Fallen London.
I think the assumption that people trying for the tattoo are doing it as an “achievement” is off the mark. But I could be wrong.
A better way would involve adding new goals instead of moving existing ones. They could keep the difficulty of acquiring the Noman tattoo the same, but introduce a new reward for keeping the Noman alive until April or May (or Hallowmas). In fact, they’ve already done something similar when they introduced Ubergoat and Heptagoat instead of increasing an Overgoat’s price ten times to preserve its prestige.
[li]All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of (snowy) things shall be well. The Clay Man gives us hope that the tattoos will be inked after all.
We get cats? Excellent, Cecil you’re the best.
Really, the problem of moving goalposts is about communication-- if January had begun with some text in an announcement or from Penstock about how the Neath was warmer this year, and lacre was more unpredictable, then we would have adjusted accordingly (or not, and our nomans would have melted a sad death). But without the opportunity to adjust, it loses any real sense of challenge and becomes pure RNG.
Cecil, you beautiful person you, more cats are always welcome! Cats for petting! Cats for eating! Cats for grooming and maiming and screaming and taming! CATS FOR EVERYONE.
On another note, MERCIFUL SAINTS ALIVE DIPPED IN LACRE AND SERVED TO THE MASTERS THEMSELVES, thank you everyone who’ve helped me grind my Noman’s Friend up to 420 after the TtH scare! It was no easy undertaking, but it was nice to see people like metasynthie and Madman-Across-The-Water for helping me out when they could. Special thanks to Parelle for her private dinners and suggestion of my name to Mr. Slowcake, as well as Gonen (via their alt Lady Ella) for sending me a whopping 38 invitations to Caligula’s coffee house (how insane is that?!).
The help is more than appreciated, and it’s comforting to see these tattoos to be a mutual undertaking both for the grinders and the community willing to support and cheer them on the entire way. Thank you all so much! :D
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 2/5/2016
Wow, I missed the whole increase and decrease of loss while happily grinding for the Feast of the Rose in my corner.
Meanwhile, it’s 144 Noman’s Friend now, so my low-maintenance Noman probably isn’t making it even with the adjustment, right?
[quote=xenopus]Wow, I missed the whole increase and decrease of loss while happily grinding for the Feast of the Rose in my corner.
Meanwhile, it’s 144 Noman’s Friend now, so my low-maintenance Noman probably isn’t making it even with the adjustment, right?[/quote]
I don’t know how much it will help, but Chris (one of the developers) said that you could email Failbetter support with a request to restore some of your Noman’s Friend quality. They raised mine back up by roughly 30 points, give or take. Blasted memory always fails me when I need it.
In all reality, you still have a shot. They reduced how much is taken with Time the Healer. Plus you only have to hold out until Feb. 15th, when Lilac finally shows up, so that’s good. Depending on when TtH comes for you, how much you can boost you Noman’s Friend with last minute Tears of the Bazaar and getting some back from support (all that may not be necessary, but why chance it?), and solely based on luck just how much of the quality you lose each week, your odds don’t actually look that bad. Don’t give up yet, friend!
If you need to know what the latest news is and want to stay updated, you can look here: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic21704-the-feast-is-coming-what-to-expect-this-year.aspx for the Noman’s Friend losses, here: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic21704-the-feast-is-coming-what-to-expect-this-year.aspx for news on the FotER, and obviously in this thread should anything else arise. Best of luck, we’re rooting for you!
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 2/6/2016
The cats have been dispatched! Everyone check your messages.
If you haven’t received a cat and aren’t listed in the first post, send me a message, I must have missed any posts you’d made.
I didn’t know Lilac’s date was announced at all (very, very busy week) - thank you for all the info and for cheering me up, Sir Joseph!
So that means my Noman only has one last TtH to survive, next Friday, and hopefully, next week’s cap will be below 144. Which sounds reasonable, I guess? I’d rather not have to engage in emergency Tear/Notability-grinding.
I guess that depends on when your TtH was, though - I had a loss of above 70 already after the devs decided to proceed with the adjustment. So that’s probably intended behaviour, and here’s hope, again, that next week won’t be too rough. It would be silly to fall so short of the goal.
I just did some back-of-an-envelope math on this. Depending on when Lilac comes next year and assuming up to, but no more then (iffy, I agree) 140 NF loss in February: this could approach a Goat-scale grind.
My main, for example, could need up to 400+ NF in February alone. At 16.6E/NF (assuming best case scenario: Urchins>pails>Monocle>Card) that’s 6500+ Echos. It’s also pulling the Urchins card a truly implausible number of times (45!).
edited by MrBurnside on 2/8/2016
edited by MrBurnside on 2/8/2016
That’s an awful lot of Notability grinding. Hopefully everything the Noman unlocks will show up early in the month.
Lilac is here! I now have a Face in the Snow.
Edit: Found the new snippet - it’s available after nabbing your tattoo.
I AM SO EXCITED! CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE WHO MADE IT! And an enormous thank you to those of you who helped us on the way. And thank you Failbetter for this lovely lovely writing.
Oh hell, I really, really hope this isn’t the foreshadowing of an even longer grind to come…
edited by Màiread on 2/15/2016
Let me be the first to offer you my heartfelt congratulations on your latest body decoration. ;)
Although I was not a participant this year, by all accounts it sounds like a hellish slog, so bravo! And enjoy!
Woo! Just got the Gant tattoo of my Noman! Thanks to everyone who cheered us on the entire way and gave us the support we needed in the forums. You guys rock. Happy Feast, everyone!
I also now bear a tattoo of my Noman. Two of them actually. I wasn’t a fan of the first tattoo I picked back in the day so I reworked them. Two might seem kind of silly but one is rather hidden and love is sacrifice and all that. Congratulations to everyone that made it. Now it’s time to see if my Noman loves me enough to explode into an elemental secret.
Philosophically, and as one who had no vested interest in this for this year, I disagree with FBG’s actions in this.
I first started playing right before the Hallowmas festival. As Forum members are aware, players organized and made a community effort to get the most Spirit of Hallowmas possible from that festival, with the result that a large number broke 500 and several broke 1000 (for which no additional content had been prepared). Thus, the "achievement" of 500 spirit was "cheapened" for the players by making it more common. One can only wonder what goalposts the devs intend to move between now and October of '16 to restore the integrity of the achievement.
Similarly, for Sacksmas the community again organized and cooperated to take best advantage of the Sacksmas cards and the corresponding MW and stat boosts. I understand that FBG lowered the amounts gained by the cards, and gave fewer per delivery, which helped to undermine this effort, also, although it was still a good experience for all involved. Now it is the Festival of the Rose, and again they have changed expectations, to preserve the integrity of the achievement literally, as attested by Chris.
There are many achievements in FL that were accomplished only by a few, that community spirit and organization tried to facilitate for others, thus making what was once known to only a few, available to many. We have lists of those who possess cider, uber-and-over-goats, Scarlet Saint status, etc. It seems that in every instance, the devs have acted to disappoint expectations and thus discourage community effort, which is an act I find philosophically discouraging. Even SMEN falls into this category: as I understand from reading its history, it began as an "every man for himself" effort, but the community banded together (with much effort from NiteBrite at the point, not to disparage any other contributors), to make the content, insofar as possible, a cooperative adventure instead of a game of King of the Hill. That the content was eventually abandoned (or postponed) as a result of other factors (by Alexis’s own testimony), does not remove it from the pattern: whenever the community comes together to optimize (or exploit take your pick)parts of the game, the developers take action to defeat or at least impair them. Now, I have been a DM for decades, and I can assure you that the DM who blocks his players at every turn whenever they come up with an idea he hadn’t thought of, is a DM who is going to have a rebellion on his hands. I do not, at this point, given my own lack of experience of FL and time in-game, suggest that these actions of the developers are indications of malice (which in fact would seem to run contrary to the feelings of others with much more experience than I about the developers), but I do suggest that they could be interpreted that way, or at least raise the question of why community effort is apparently discouraged, if not by overtly censoring the forums, then by changing the rules of the game. It’s a bit disappointing, although in my case not soul-searing, especially as I had not the opportunity to devote so much time and effort to a goal that was more chimerical than I knew.
– Mal
edited by malthaussen on 2/15/2016
Very good points you brought there, Mal.
I believe the issue at hand is less of blocking the community’s attempts and more changing the rules after much investment and no chance to adjust.
But that’s been discussed plenty, and FBG acknowledged the community’s distress signs in real time and responded, though contrary to their opinion. Which is very admirable.
There are several issues with community assistance:
It IS very uniting and adds fun and positivity as added value to the season. But it DOES cheapen goals.
Now, we have a problem here. Suppose we raise the bar - and announce it beforehand so no one will be surprised, etc. - what will be with those lone players? Those who are not aware of the forums or have less interest with it? I believe they are the majority (!) of players. How can they achieve the higher bar without a community effort?
We visit this forum a lot, but let us remember that FL is originally a single player, non competitive game.
How to keep some prizes exclusive yet achievable for single players? Does everyone deserve every prize? Is there any room for exclusivity?
And, yes… what to do if the community keeps reducing a very challenging task to a mild to moderate one? (Is that wrong? Will it be less fun for everyone?)
But consider Gonen, that the isolated player has no knowledge if his achievement is common or not, and derives his satisfaction from the act, not the bragging rights.:) If so, then making the achievement more difficult because others, of whom he is not even aware, can reach it more easily than he, does nothing for such a player but make life more difficult.
– Mal