Geeez… the forum’s really going the way of the rest of the internet lately.
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Hey Thoon, I’d like to give you one piece of perspective about this conversation.
So I’m not anything special here, but I am a mod on the Fallen London subreddit. Over there, we’ve seen one person use at least four different accounts to voice complaints along a similar line as yours. And that same person carried the discussion over here, using the number of complaints on Reddit as part of their argument. Which, again, to reinforce, the volume was all that person’s own sockpuppets.
I am not trying to throw shade at you. I am trying very hard to give you a fair chance.
What I’m saying is, there has been a lot of objectively bad-faith discussion on this topics. You sound like you’re trying to take this position in good faith, and I’m taking you at your word on this. But I’m also completely sympathetic that other’s patience on this matter has worn thin, and extremely sympathetic to being suspicious of a new forum account whose first post is taking the same position as known sockpuppets.
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They really don’t imo.
They’re pretty clearly saying one thing and meaning another, and when called on it they’ve tried to flip it on the people engaging with them and make those people look stupid. (The respect vs worship thing for example.)
Like my patience has worn out for this at this point. It’s absolutely possible to have different opinions on content but there’s a certain level of kindness and respect for fellow real life humans we like to see on this board that the people(?; Possibly just one person I guess) making these criticisms keep not showing. I don’t think I’d agree that that’s in good faith personally.
Thank you for summarizing the drama though, that was helpful :>
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I love the City in Silver and everything about the way it was implemented. All the important choices are there. All the major plot threads tied together in a tapestry of joy and optimism. I am glad that, at least the way I’ve built my version of the City, I finally feel the player character has done an unquestionably good deed .
For clarification: my PC is a Nemesis PC. At a crucial moment he chose to enact vengeance exactly for the kind of reckless, inhumane behaviour the powerful exhibit towards the powerless. He chose this at great personal cost, paying the price of forever losing a loved one. It is so right for this character to build a city where none hold such dominion as to abuse commonfolk the way Mr Cups did.
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…they’re not that Bizarre, I guess?
Man, it’s so surreal to see Thoon’s grudge against CiS when I myself have taken an antagonistic attitude towards the unions for much, MUCH pettier and gameplay not story-related reasons. WITHOUT coming to the conclusion it’s some sort of personal attack. The difference between us is that my annoyance with the characters does not equate an annoyance with the game itself. Because I just:
-Used the in-game options to send people into Hell, tank the City Waning, gradually heal it up and do the whole thing all over again.
-Catfished the Creditor into marrying my Discordance-enabled city-self
-Rigged the culture to be Anti-Liberationist, keeping them firmly in line with my rule
-Made the Lackey mine, and put him in charge instead of Furnace or Cornelius.
-And make a point of visiting the City by Vakeback every single time to put the fear of Veils into the population every time they see me.
Do some of those options feel underdeveloped and niche compared to the Furnace/Cornelius arc? Oh, definitely; the game is doing everything short of outright telling me I have chosen a bad end. Would it be nice, in an ideal world, if a staunchly anti-working man city’s policies could be developed? Maybe, but it’s hard-pressed to say what that would actually look like when it’s kind of the theme in Fallen London that great power tends to come with isolation-and a close business relationship with Fires, the most logical ally, is kind of gated to those who finished Light Fingers and chose the more ruthless ending.
But the fact that I have the agency to make those choices at all is gratifying to me enough to conclude FL has, in the final analysis, done enough for me to separate the writing from the writer. What I’ve been allowed to inflict on the population is a lot more than what I’ve been allowed to inflict on various NPCs from ESes I’d very much enjoy a Black Ribbon duel against. On vakeback.
(Also while there is almost certainly some level of coping and seething at the sheer variety of options unlocked via Heart’s Desire, in the final analysis based on what the respective Treasures unlock in the time period the game is set in I wouldn’t trade my Winged and Taloned Steed for any other Treasure in the game. Not even becoming a proto-Master. Not unless Fallen London the game lasts for an actual century, and I live long enough to see all the retirement-age Heart’s Desire players who chose Power get 10-card decks and like 500 in all stats)
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This is my issue.
I completely and totally understand that all of my: grinds, achievements, hoarded items, and etc. were objectively pointless wastes of time to acquire. That’s how pastimes work, I’m not sore about that.
But bare minimum? I’ve always expected those same things to at least feel a little meaningful within the game itself. Because that’s how this particular pastime works. I put in time in order to immerse myself in a fantasy.
So when I got to what is (at present) the latest late game hub in existence… only to be told no one’s impressed? And then find the entire rest of the update is written to guilt trip me for being annoyed by that?
That feels about 1/2 a step shy of FBG literally just pointing at me and laughing for having put in my time.
Each to their own, I suppose. Just speaking for myself, after nobody breaking down my character’s door on a regular basis despite having fed someone Hesperidean Cider at least once.There being relatively little commotion about my newly acquired Heptagoat. And the fact that London is just kind of letting me keep my Vake-steed and given up on doing anything about it unless I’m spotted riding it myself. I’ve probably accepted a much lower stander of acknowledgement from the game than you, so I’m not particularly bothered by an event hub that took less grinding than any of the above to accomplish having less to say about me.
…I mean, this IS the game that sold players boots and polish with a clear warning that buying them would accomplishing nothing. And not only did players go and buy them anyway, but from what I’ve heard there is currently a scheme to burn (too many 7s) of scrip just to see what will happen. I’ve come to accept that both this game and it’s playerbase are barmy enough that acknowledgement has less meaning than accomplishment, and at this point I’m just happy to be along for the ride.
Again, if you feel differently that’s alright but speaking for myself-it feels meaningful to the extent that not EVERYONE has their own city in the Neath. The way I look at it-so what if nobody’s impressed? They’re scruffy and looking for a new place to live, and I AM that place to live. Those UNIMPRESSED people don’t even OWN their own city! Let alone one that’s literally themself! I stand transcendent above the human condition, having at least partially enshrined my existence as a metropolitan development. And at least to the extent that my city-self would have likely outlived me if I didn’t also have the Hesperidean Cider, I am in the presence of my own immortality. Because of that, the opinions of mere flesh and blood mortals are utterly irrelevant.
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It took me a moment to figure out how to articulate this little addendum… but y’know what it feels like beating up on the TLU and/or CiS?
It’s almost identical to the experience of abusing your patrons in the original Rollercoaster Tycoon.
You can kidnap and drown 10000 children… and all anyone will ever do in response is complain that there aren’t enough bathrooms in your theme park. And as a consequence it all feels completely hollow. Like punching an empty mascot’s costume in anger.
It would be incredibly dull to be Godzilla if everyone yawned and went about their business at your approach. Depressing, even.
At best? It feels like a deep disconnect between gameplay and story.
At worst? It turns me into SCP 1504 within my own escapist fantasy. And if you don’t understand that reference? Here’s an edited quote to illustrate the point.
“I could say anything. I could do anything. I could say that I’m going to […] your wife and you wouldn’t even notice. Hell, I could actually […] your wife and you wouldn’t notice. […] I am going to step outside this room and take the guard’s gun. I’m going to […] with that gun and nothing, […] nothing, is going to happen.”
Hey, in good news this just changed!!
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I have to revisit this topic one last time, because as it turned out? There was one last crevasse between story & gameplay waiting for me after coming full circle and re-appointing Furnace as head of the TLU. Which I can summarize thusly:
Furnace - ‘My first love is and ever shall be the sulky teenager that is the TLU (the same union you’ve taken every opportunity to spite and undermine since arriving in this city)… but I’m still happy to be your sneaky link whenever you’re in town.’
…That was probably the one and only instance where it would’ve felt warranted (to me at least) to be given the cold shoulder. And somehow even that mark was missed by about 20 odd meters.
On the upside? The exact moment when I hooked up with Furnace after dragging CiS to Station VIII, and maxing out Tracklayers’ Displeasure + City in Waning? The words:
“But none of you has been lost.”
Finally felt meaningful.
And this really will be the last time I revisit this topic, because the more I scan the wiki on the subject? The more it depresses me. Ergo it follows that I should just stop now.
As someone who was determined to, someday, throw all those ingrates who refused my delicious feasts and insisted I had to pay them in stale biscuits and ONLY stale biscuits straight through the gates of Hell?
This is even better.
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As it happens? I just finished my 7th go 'round on that carousel.
And it feels completely hollow.
Y’know why? Because nothing actually changes as a result.
Furnace/Cornelius are still your side pieces without commentary or complaint. The Tracklayers still talk about you like an absentee boss nobody respects. And the CiS itself is still exactly as soulless and devoid of identity as it was before.
Which… is also what happens if you pour every ounce of time and energy you have to fitting in with the CiS/TLU.
Douchebag City is always just Douchebag City. Nothing the player does actually impacts its character. Just its decorating scheme.
EDIT: I don’t care if you don’t like that I don’t like CiS. That doesn’t make criticism of it offensive it just makes you very touchy vis-a-vis your own opinions. Nor does it give you cause to arbitrarily flag me.
Let’s take your objection to the Tracklayers’ City content to be well and truly noted, and consider that discussion settled.
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Indid.
we get it, thoon
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And summarily discarded, I’m sure.
(Which is actually oddly appropriate considering the content of the complaint. 
)
To be clear, there’s nothing I could do about the story - I don’t work for Failbetter and have no power over the work they produce! I just volunteer here on the forums 'cause I love the games, love the community, and want to keep the conversation moving along without getting too stuck in one subject.
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Don’t mistake me. I’m not nagging you for the game’s content, nor do I have any illusions about where and how community managers are told the lines are to be drawn on topics like this.
I’m just saying: being officially ignored on a topic? IE: told outright to just drop it, knowing full-well the actual criticism has been roundly ignored?
Yeah. It’s really not much consolation. No hard feelings though.
Wait, what? How did you lock yourself out of giving them a feast at Station 8? I didn’t even think that was possible.
Also, Thoon, your post right before this one here was you saying that you were really for real going to stop posting about this. And yet.
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How many New Years Resolutions have you burned on your pet peeves, with each one made in good faith within your own mind?
(I’m guessing the answer is more than one. And not for want of trying. That’s how being irked by things works.)