The balance of the attributes

Fallen London
1

Now I am a (relatively) new player of fallen london, in fact I just reached an unmodified 100 stat just today.

I started this game and made a decision &quotI am going to be a baseline agressor, I’m going into london to beat up the biggest dudes and blow up the biggest buildings&quot and went about with this mentality in most things.

As such, my shadowy is somewhat lacking, to the point where it’s half as high as my dangerous, and my other stats are also considerably behind.

Now, on the one hand, I dont mind the spike in stats, if that makes sense. I dont want to do everything super well yet necessarily, I’m just happy to run about fighting things.

This being said, I cant help but observe the fact that, comparritive to the other stats, dangerous seems to have less applications.

Early game felt almost perfectly even as I went along, but the more I do, and the more I investigate as to what I will be / should be doing, the more I notice that many of the more important grinding/continuous/expansive late game locations seem to not involve dangerous in any real sense.

I’m also not sure if I’m missing something in regards to the &quotA name scrawled in blood&quot / Labyrinth of Tigres storyline, Is there something that comes after the hound of hell, or is that the current (and also maybe future) content barrier?

To be clear, I’m not making this post to complain, more to reach out to the community to set me straight, because I am sure there is more to this than I am seeing, and that I might have exaggerated the preportions of the non-dangerous zones to myself because they’re not what I’ve done, but so far I’ve not been able to solve it for myself.

2

The Velocipede Squad is another storyline that requires Dangerous, although you’ll need plenty of Watchful as well.

I’d say that the stats aren’t entirely balanced in terms of content - Persuasive probably goes the furthest, all the way to Port Carnelian. Shadowy goes up to Mahogany Hall before trailing off without any real conclusion, and Watchful has the expeditions after the University.

Doing everything super well is kind of a requirement to unlock the late-game, since you have to have 100 in each stat (not necessarily concurrently) to become a Person of Some Importance.

3

[quote=JimmyTMalice]The Velocipede Squad is another storyline that requires Dangerous, although you’ll need plenty of Watchful as well.

I’d say that the stats aren’t entirely balanced in terms of content - Persuasive probably goes the furthest, all the way to Port Carnelian. Shadowy goes up to Mahogany Hall before trailing off without any real conclusion, and Watchful has the expeditions after the University.

Doing everything super well is kind of a requirement to unlock the late-game, since you have to have 100 in each stat (not necessarily concurrently) to become a Person of Some Importance.[/quote]

It does have wilmots end, which has the main quality of shadowy at least.

Edit: The equivalent of wilmots end for dangerous is the broad underzee, which is…well, it’s not something you’re really using as anything other than a transition, and even then, it’s not toooo dangerous heavy.
edited by Neonir on 6/21/2016

4

Affair of the Box is a Shadowy carousel as well.

5

I don’t know how unbalanced things are, but I do know that you’ll need to max out your dangerous to have a shot at becoming a monster-hunter. I assume the final installment of the Vake ambition will require that as well.

One does run out of things to do in the late game, so you’ll end up maxing out every stat sooner or later. I’ve maxed out dangerous and persuasive, and am almost there with watchful. Like you, my shadowy lags way behind.
edited by Beau Mercy on 6/21/2016

6

Dangerous does kind of get the short end of the stick in the very late game. Watchful is necessary for boosting Scholar of the Correspondence, going on expeditions (now pretty profitable), and is a central stat in Seeking. Persuasive has the governorship and is necessary on the extremely profitable bazaar lodging card. Shadowy has the affairs of the box grind and Thefts of Particular Character is the most efficient way to get a lot of useful late game items. But dangerous doesn’t really have much to do once your past it’s main storylines. The velocipede squad is occasionally useful but often beaten by other sources. I think the jake of smiles case is the last thing dangerous centered story and if I recall that’s also pretty watchful.

7

Other than beast breeding, Dangerous is definitely the least useful stat at the content boundary.

Of course, one day there will presumably be new content, and then perhaps there will be a new least useful stat.

8

[quote=Beau Mercy]I don’t know how unbalanced things are, but I do know that you’ll need to max out your dangerous to have a shot at becoming a monster-hunter. I assume the final installment of the Vake ambition will require that as well.

One does run out of things to do in the late game, so you’ll end up maxing out every stat sooner or later. I’ve maxed out dangerous and persuasive, and am almost there with watchful. Like you, my shadowy lags way behind.
edited by Beau Mercy on 6/21/2016[/quote]

I’m already a monster hunter, with just 101 unmodded dangerous, though I did have to try twice I suppose.

9

[quote=Ian Hart]Other than beast breeding, Dangerous is definitely the least useful stat at the content boundary.

Of course, one day there will presumably be new content, and then perhaps there will be a new least useful stat.[/quote]

Damn…I was honestly really hoping this wasn’t the case to be honest.

I suppose life goes on, and it’s not too hard to get the other stats up a bit and all that, but it’s still frustrating to know that my &quotShoot 'em all let god sort 'em out&quot character personality isn’t really going to have too much more to do in terms of…well, shooting them all.

10

At end game, high Persuasive and high Watchful are undoubtedly more beneficial than high Dangerous or Shadowy. For that matter, they’re both generally more beneficial throughout most of the game. This is likely intentional. Alexis Kennedy has written elsewhere (http://community.failbettergames.com/topic19495-suggestion-give-hearts-an-effect-outside-events.aspx#post97836) that he likes asymmetries in game design, such as the relative weakness of Hearts and Pages in Sunless Sea.
edited by geremy on 6/22/2016

11

Most people are complex. Just because your character has a violent streak doesn’t mean he isn’t interested in relationships or knowledge. A character with a violent streak can also be socially dominating (high persuasive), and a predator’s instinct for hunting down the facts (high watchful). Everything in life for him is a hunt for his prey, whatever form the hunt takes.

Alternatively, he could be troubled by his urges and seeks to counteract them with social niceties and respectable academic pursuits. He has inordinate passion for the “right” social causes. Sometimes he can fool himself into thinking he’s a civilized person.

Or his violence is more patient and sadistic, manifesting as high Shadowy and Watchful. He not only has violent urges, he actually delights in hurting people and getting away with it.

Imagination is the limit, really.

12

Personally I find it easier to hit people if I know where they’re hiding.

13

[quote=Beau Mercy]Most people are complex. Just because your character has a violent streak doesn’t mean he isn’t interested in relationships or knowledge. A character with a violent streak can also be socially dominating (high persuasive), and a predator’s instinct for hunting down the facts (high watchful). Everything in life for him is a hunt for his prey, whatever form the hunt takes.

Alternatively, he could be troubled by his urges and seeks to counteract them with social niceties and respectable academic pursuits. He has inordinate passion for the &quotright&quot social causes. Sometimes he can fool himself into thinking he’s a civilized person.

Or his violence is more patient and sadistic, manifesting as high Shadowy and Watchful. He not only has violent urges, he actually delights in hurting people and getting away with it.

Imagination is the limit, really.[/quote]

Yes yes, well this is all very well and good, but my characters stats being in alignment with my vision of my character isn’t so much what I’m talking about so much as his activities.

While a violent and aggressive chap might be quite observant and charming, that does not mean he’s the type to get stuck into the books of university or write an opera.

Why he might enjoy the odd bit of detectives work and maybe a bit of amicable chatter with the gents down at the club, when it comes down to it, his primary solution to problems is to hit them very hard, repeatedly. And when a situation cannot be solved in this manner, he will look for a situation that can.

I never at any point said that it’s not possible to make a violent character in fallen london, I just expressed a dissapointment that my specific idea for an aggressive, warmongering, headcracking gentleman, isn’t realistic in the long term.

Which in it’s own way, sort of makes sense. In the real world, being a clever or persuasive chap, will, in the end, get you further along than being an impossibly robust and brawny fellow. Same could be said about being subtle, though I would almost say it would reach further in todays society than brute strength.

Thaaaaat being said, and, I know this is a long shot, but I would just adore some boss monster fights. Like, really big fights to work towards at sea or what have you, in which you fight down a monster of mythic preportions for either great, or hell, even very little reward. Just something to have for the Monster Hunters out there.

14

Heh, you run out of material for every character concept faster than you would think, even watchful and persuasive ones.

15

My brother decided to play an exclusively violent sociopathic character, and got to 200 Dangerous without raising his other stats over 100. It’s not nearly optimal, and it means there is a lot of interesting content he hasn’t played, but the game absolutely allows him to roleplay that way.
edited by Ian Hart on 6/22/2016