Sunless Sea: The good, the bad, the ugly

Sunless Sea
1

Hello, I’m nameless, and I’ve spent the better part of the last week obsessively playing Sunless Sea. I’ve enjoyed it immensely, but at the same time, I’ve been greatly frustrated by the mangle of mechanics that interfere with the gameplay greatly.

The good: The Narrative and the Storytelling.
Gods, Sunless sea is a world unto itself, a place you can get lost in for hours, no, DAYS at a time.

  I was an avid player of Fallen London, so when I saw that FailBetter Games was coming out with another game, I knew I had to give it a try. I liked the background of the game when I first heard of it. Exploring the Zee while fighting terror and dangers from the deep? Fascinating!

  So when the Beta first came out, I downloaded it immediately, and I have to say, I don’t regret plopping down my money on it. I can travel to the colonies of the dead, and visit the devils in exile! I can visit the corpse-islands of cthuluian creatures, and fight with the pirates of corsairs grove! It’s a fantastic setting, and I enjoyed it greatly.

  Do I have enough fuel to get back to London? What’s beyond that colony? How can I recruit a cook? These were all questions that occupied my mind as I was playing Sunless Sea, and I loved it.

The bad:

  However, frustration quickly set in. The fact of the matter is, combat in Sunless Sea is brutal, harder than Binding of Isaac or Our Darker Purpose in some senses. There is no projectile to dodge, no pattern to memorize. Monster damage varies wildy, so one attack can do a pitiful 5 damage, while the very next can kill you. Illumination is a wildcard: With 100 Mirror, I was still somehow getting less than 25 illumination at times when I was facing sharks or eels. Those 5 seconds were completely wasted, and made me feel like a powerless fool.

 There are no easy upgrades either. Most of all the upgrades are worthless, and only a few are useful. Getting the right type of storyline is a matter of luck, which is downright dull at times.

 Let’s face it. The best way to grind echoes in the game is to kill pirates steam-pinnances north of london, and turning them in.


Port reports and admiralty commissions can barely cover the cost of fuel at times, and terror is a constant enemy, although that’s a good thing, since it puts agency on the player.

The ugly:

…But I guess the part that irritates me the most about Sunless sea is the fact that it’s so hard to see where you’re going. How to progress and where to go are all things that are left up to you to decide, and often times it’s easy to fumble your way into wasted opportunities and resources.

For example, figuring out what happens to the sisters means having high heart or iron, but even if you know it’s hard to grind these things while trying to keep yourself afloat. Player strength increase dramatically at times while stall at the worst possible moments.

Overall, good for a few hours. b.n.m.

2

Have you tried downloading the most recent patches? They have made some slight modifications to combat. Speaking of combat, Veils is of paramount importance because it allows you to compensate for a weak mirrors and iron. However, whispered secrets are ridiculously difficult to get because the journal fragment system is not working very well. Once you can start farming Lorn-Flukes then it’s no problem at all but that takes a while to get up to.

Also, I believe trade is a far more reliable way to get money than attempting to haul Pinnaces to port early on (atleast if you’re on the more difficult modes). They altered the markets somewhat so now it’s not profitable to trade Prisoner’s Honey to Venderblight or Silk from Venderblight back to London - I think it’s now wine from London to Venderblight but I do not know about the reverse.

edited by Owen Wulf on 6/27/2014

3

[quote=Owen Wulf]They altered the markets somewhat so now it’s not profitable to trade Prisoner’s Honey to Venderblight or Silk from Venderblight back to London - I think it’s now wine from London to Venderblight but I do not know about the reverse.
edited by Owen Wulf on 6/27/2014[/quote]

As of the latest patch, Venderbight does not sell anything, and they only accept Mushroom Vine and Foxfire Candles. Shipping the vine from London does net a modest margin of 2 Echoes apiece.

Even considering the colonists’ fare, this once unrivalled trade route is hardly worth taking anymore. Especially since the change to buoy mechanics which now, it seems, requires one to keep the lights on in order to completely avoid terror gain, unless there are both a buoy and land in sight.

With that said, depriving some pirates of their vessels seems all the more compelling a way to earn one’s crust.

4

umm, the candles can now be sold for a profit of 10 echos a piece. Venderbright’s more profitable than ever

5

Current state of play does disproportionately reward hunting pirates just outside Fallen London. Possible solutions could include:

  • Making the pirates rarer spawns;

  • Spreading pirates out across the map;

  • Reducing the value of To The Victor, The Spoils;

  • Increasing the profit margin of trade across the board (by either lowering costs or increasing sell values);

  • Increasing the profit margin of trade for long voyages by increasing the sell value of goods roughly proportional to how far the sale port is from the origin. (So: Trinkets cost 8 Echoes in FL, sell for 10 in Venderbight, 13 in Wither, 16 in Khan’s Heart; Bobbins from Khan’s Heart cost 10 Echoes, sell for 15 in Wither, 20 in FL.)

6

(Rocco suggests I buy Rock Salt in Lisbon for 210, sell it in Seville for 225. But I bet I can sell it for 230 in FL – and offload that annoying Domingo guy while I’m at it.)

7

Candles cost 40 Echoes in Wolfstack and sell for 33 in Venderbight. None of the other ports seem to sell Foxfire Candles from what I’ve seen, so I’m not sure where you’re getting a ten echo profit from

8

[quote=Gordon Levine]Current state of play does disproportionately reward hunting pirates just outside Fallen London. Possible solutions could include:

  • Making the pirates rarer spawns;

  • Spreading pirates out across the map;

  • Reducing the value of To The Victor, The Spoils;

  • Increasing the profit margin of trade across the board (by either lowering costs or increasing sell values);

  • Increasing the profit margin of trade for long voyages by increasing the sell value of goods roughly proportional to how far the sale port is from the origin. (So: Trinkets cost 8 Echoes in FL, sell for 10 in Venderbight, 13 in Wither, 16 in Khan’s Heart; Bobbins from Khan’s Heart cost 10 Echoes, sell for 15 in Wither, 20 in FL.)[/quote]

Pirates really should not be messed with until there is an adequate monetary substitute, because right now they’re the only way to make money in the early/mid game that doesn’t involve hours and hour and hours of sailing back and forth to Venderblight.

Once there are other, equally viable ways to make money, I’m all for moving the pirate spawns around. But to do so now would basically make the game unplayable IMO. (I already spent one solid night sailing to Venderblight and back, there’s no way I’ll continue to play if it’s the only real way to make money for the few weeks, month, months…)

9

I’m all for smoothing out the profitability curve. But the pirates outside FL aren’t the only way to make money, just the easiest/most boring. Scintillack farming (Port Cecil → Tea with the Factor loop) is still viable, if less profitable. Completing Strategic Information loops for the Admiral is only barely profitable but allows you to see the zee without losing Echoes.
edited by levineg85 on 6/27/2014

10

[quote=Gordon Levine]I’m all for smoothing out the profitability curve. But the pirates outside FL aren’t the only way to make money, just the easiest/most boring. Scintillack farming (Port Cecil → Tea with the Factor loop) is still viable, if less profitable. Completing Strategic Information loops for the Admiral is only barely profitable but allows you to see the zee without losing Echoes.
edited by levineg85 on 6/27/2014[/quote]

Until you take damage just once. Then you’re in the hole. Also you accrue plenty of terror just trying to make money when you go out that way. it is not profitable, nor fun IMO, to have to sail that long just to get some basic cash together. Farming pirates vs. pretty much anything is the choice between boring but quick and profitable, and tedious, slow and maybe-profitable. It’s not a hard choice to make at the moment.

11

TL;DR: A new player’s perspective on getting cash, from someone that hasn’t followed updates and has fresh eyes on this.

Greetings all. I’m trying to get a better grasp of this game as I’ve spent probably around 20 hours~ on it. I wanted to start upgrading and purchasing better items.

The first major purchase I made yesterday was a better steeple engine (1500 power +10 veils I believe). I noticed a slight improvement in speed but what seemed like twice as much fuel usage!

Anyways, I was trying to figure out how to earn money and what was the most attainable source of income. I looked at trade briefly, but I didn’t want to spend the time documenting all the trade costs at different ports and see what was worth more/less as this seemed a general waste of fuel even with commissions on reports.

I ended up figuring out that as long as I generally increased mirrors high enough I could farm pirates without much loss. I’ve only loss probably 3 (9 together) men on failed missions of probably 15-20. Basically I farm pirates on my way to sell tomb colonists or try my luck at the Spore Mining or that Cecil Colony (as they seemed to me to have a good chance of cash) to earn cash, in combination with Zee-bats and the Spore Mining supplies I get for free which I also will sell to the Sister’s. I do this with the rotation of getting crew everytime I stop in London incase I loose one somewhere.

Overall…looking at the cost of some upgrades, especially the ships, seemed like a daunting task of farming that I’d never be able to afford or want to. I see the game is still going to expand in content size (50% more?), but it’s hard to imagine a situation where items (the ships mostly) come close to affordable without hours of grinding. I didn’t even know/think of trade besides my red-neck way was a viable source of income (actual buying/selling at ports). I suppose there could be enough lucky quest lines and content that’s a little better spelled out that could earn one money over-time while seeing new content to buy bigger more luxurious goods.

And while we’re at it…any benefit to have a better house in London? Hate to waste a precious 1000E’s on nothing.
edited by dashbarron on 6/27/2014

12

Houses give you the option to retire (win the game) or spend 100 echoes to remove 11 terror.

Also would like to say I really hate how the enemies follow you right to harbors and you can’t leave without encountering them. I once had a ship full of unfinished pirates chase me all the way to mutton island from the canal.
edited by nameless on 6/27/2014

13

Some of these concerns are things they’re already working on, but yeah, the game could benefit from getting significantly less grindy. The Godfall wine route is great for when you first start a new game and if pursued diligently is probably enough to get you into a fairly well-armed and well-geared steamer, but making the jump to an advanced ship is still pretty prohibitively painful, esp. once the Godfall money peters out.

I agree the main problem now remains grindyness – much like Fallen London, SS has great content and is fun to play but the later game turns into a bit of a grind. Which is actually fine in a browser coffee-break game but not so much in something like SS where you’re sitting down to play it for a long session. Instead I find myself playing SS for ten or fifteen minutes, then wandering away, then coming back . . .There need to be a lot more two-way routes; most of what’s in now is great one-way but there usually doesn’t seem to be a return leg. Ideally, each separate major node would be the cheapest place to buy at least one thing, and a decent (if not optimal) place to sell two or three things, so you could make a decent profit traveling all over the different network nodes so long as you did a little advance planning.

Resting at home does seem a bit overpriced for the value. Ship prices should probably be reduced significantly.

The game also needs a lot more development in its long narrative arcs. Right now the ambitions are just &quotcollect X number of things.&quot They really need to be a lot more than that – what we have now is a sandbox game, which is great for what it is, but it would be really good to have some truly long Ambition arcs similar to FL’s ambitions, so the game had more sense of overarching narrative.

14

I think Ambitions will get more detailed. The two that are available are there because they’re straightforward goals that don’t require a lot of work. But there are a lot of ambitions yet to go into game, and if FL is any indication, they’ll be more story driven than gettin’ rich.

Same here. As soon as I get back from exploring and know I need to farm some pirates for quick cash, my will to play goes down immediately.