Suggestions - Real reputations and more (Spoilers)

Sunless Sea
1

So after spending an hour grinding out Scintillacks to get Drowning Pearls so I can pay off the Khanate to lower my high suspicion caused by self defense of the always aggressive Khanate ships, it was at that point I wondered where the hell did my life go this wrong?

=============== Player Reputation ===============

This game desperately needs real player reputation amongst neutral nations while increasing the number of sea creatures to keep the danger. It doesn’t make sense that there is a tenuous &quotpeace&quot between London and Khanate yet when you go to the Khanate the ships want to kill you on sight… Seriously this sucks. It doesn’t make sense from a gameplay or lore point of view. The game should have relations to factions and the option to fulfill your legacy (ie be rich) offshore.

It would be good if a nations vessel dubious of your privateer nature (ie reputation with that nation = -5 to +5) opens up a dialogue and gives you a choice of skill checks. Even if you fail, you can still just run away.

Also you can have cool things, like the Khanate being hard to gain reputation with, but easy to lose it. And the Dawn Machine cultists have just erratic gains and loss. And so over the course of play you just **** people off, past the point of a irrevocable relations threshold, and you just have to make do.

But seriously it kinda needs this. Less unreasonably aggressive ships. Suits the text, suits the game.

Supremacy changes antagonizes rival factions.

Suggestion: If you were to do this, you’d need a way to identify friendly from hostile. I have blown up the merchant ship in game currently, every time. Because every ship/creature is hostile.

Bug/Spoiler: If you overthrow London with the Anarchists, you still get banned from London from helping the Pentecostal Apes.

============= Engine/Game Speed ===============

Grueling… Absolutely grueling from start to end. You seriously need to tweak that. The map is too large and even by end game it feels like a mobile game where you feel like doing something else as you go from one point to the next.

Boost the speed across the board.

Spoiler: The Tireless Mechanic directs you to go the Dawn Machine for the Element of Dawn… Where I died mind you… But this is a lie. You must give them the best forward weapon which I was NOONE near getting, in order to get it… So the game sent me on a wild goose chase … This is bad writing with bad questing imo… You should separate these two quests or give more options.

================= Hold size ====================

Also needs to be increased across the board. The best viable sense of ship progression is Starter -> Merchant -> Dreadnought. Everything else is terrible due to all the items you need everywhere. This is a problem start to end.

Suggestion: Submarine boat? Terror increase rate is in between a ship with it’s lights on and off with it’s own unique terror circumstances but is vulnerable to submersible creatures and (possibly added depth charges) and needs torpedoes to fight… Kinda sketchy idea I grant you, but I think it could work well. I had a bad experience in a U boat once.

================== Ships ======================

Ships need re-balancing for the reasons above. There is no point going for the ships that hold less. This game needs big holds. Not a matter of opinion. It’s how the game operates. You need to find different differences between ships. Maybe weight affects turning/maneuvering.

========== Items that are luck based ==============

In a 10 hour game I have not gotten one live specimen. Not one. Yes I can check the wiki but every time someone has to check a wiki is a game failure. Even after checking a wiki I still haven’t gotten one. Introductory quests are on standby.

This really needs tweaking.

=============================================

And that’s it. Yes I know a lot of this is tall orders, but it kinda needs to happen especially for the reputation. That would be a result of game choices rather than not a predetermined linear path of scripts.

Well that’s it, I’m done.
edited by SenTerran on 2/15/2015

2

I agree with your first point, real reputations would be nice. Disagree with the rest though, speed and hold sizes are fine as they are in my opinion.

3

You can buy live specimins from the Labyrinth of TIgers assuming you have died and passed on a legacy at least once (…I’m not actually sure why that prerequisite exists though.)

4

A real reputation system and expanded stories for each of the major factions would be great, but… I don’t think those Khanate Trimarans are entirely under the control of the Khan. They’d probably still be hostile.

I would only agree with a speed increase if the map dimensions were doubled across the board, with more small random islands (possibly some you can interact with) added. Right now the map feels too cramped, especially once you get a decent engine.

More options would be nice (maybe part of the reward on reaching DM:TRIUMPHANT?), but it doesn’t follow that it’s bad writing or bad questing. Why should the Mechanic know how to get the Element? He gives you the where, it’s up to you to figure out the how.

Zubmarine will be coming with the Underwater expansion.

There are uses for the Corvette, if you want to fight things, so it is very much &quota matter of opinion&quot and play-style. Not so much the Cutter and Steam-Launch, but it doesn’t make sense to increase their hold size. Hold sizes in general are fine.

Rest of these suggestions are meh.
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015

5

[quote=Gregg Johnson]A real reputation system and expanded stories for each of the major factions would be great, but… I don’t think those Khanate Trimarans are entirely under the control of the Khan. They’d probably still be hostile.

I would only agree with a speed increase if the map dimensions were doubled across the board, with more small random islands (possibly some you can interact with) added. Right now the map feels too cramped, especially once you get a decent engine.

More options would be nice (maybe part of the reward on reaching DM:TRIUMPHANT?), but it doesn’t follow that it’s bad writing or bad questing. Why should the Mechanic know how to get the Element? He gives you the where, it’s up to you to figure out the how.

Zubmarine will be coming with the Underwater expansion.

There are uses for the Corvette, if you want to fight things, so it is very much &quota matter of opinion&quot and play-style. Not so much the Cutter and Steam-Launch, but it doesn’t make sense to increase their hold size. Hold sizes in general are fine.

Rest of these suggestions are meh.
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015[/quote]
From memory he directs you AT the Dawn Machine, not the people and says you can get it there through it will be dangerous.

But you can’t. It would be okay if he directs you at the Grand Geode and you inquire about the Element of Darn and they say &quotNo way. That shits sacred to us. **** off.&quot So you at least get a notion of you can’t do that yet.

And you KNOW they’re bad news. SPOILER: Making a sun that could kill all people in the zee is nothing you want to support, but to complete these complete asinine officer quests must build doomsday item to complete my character and force player to do things they don’t want to… Falls under bad quests and bad writing. I’m sorry.

But you have no idea… Ever… The people who do, went to wikipedia. And I hate that.

6

When you build the Memento Mori, it tells you you can give it to the various factions. Grand Geode is the only port anywhere near the Dawn Machine, and clearly connected to it. This is especially clear if you delivered Sphinxstone there. You might not figure it out immediately, but it’s more than feasible to connect the dots without relying on the wiki. H__l, if you sail into Grand Geode with the Memento Mori it tells you, plain as Day, what you’ll get in return.

It’s a ridiculously powerful engine, building it isn’t supposed to be easy.
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015

7

There is still content to go in and the tiny bit of the Carnelian Exile’s story involves the dawn machine so it’s entirely possibly tehre will be more ways to get elements of dawn soonish.

8

And in the matter of forcing players to do things they don’t want to do, no, the game can’t do that, if all you want is to know what the score is with every character, you can look it up if you want to, but if you’re going down the path of assisting dangerous nutjobs, then it’s your choice to do that, no one elses. If you don’t like it that you have to associate with dangerous nutjobs to get something, then don’t…

No one’s forcing anyone to do anything, that’s one of the happy things about the game, you can get lots of rewards easily by doing bad things, but that’s the same as life, and one of the more enjoyable things about the world I find.

9

[quote=Gregg Johnson]When you build the Memento Mori, it tells you you can give it to the various factions. Grand Geode is the only port anywhere near the Dawn Machine, and clearly connected to it. This is especially clear if you delivered Sphinxstone there. You might not figure it out immediately, but it’s more than feasible to connect the dots without relying on the wiki. H__l, if you sail into Grand Geode with the Memento Mori it tells you, plain as Day, what you’ll get in return.

It’s a ridiculously powerful engine, building it isn’t supposed to be easy.
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015[/quote]
I’m not questioning the difficulty but here is the problem:

&quot’We need once-living monster-material. And since we can’t get the heart of the Bazaar (no, we really can’t), we’ll need something from the Dawn Machine. Sorry.’&quot &quotThe Dawn Machine lies far to the South West.&quot – From game.

That sounds like we need to go to the Dawn Machine, except you can’t port there and the Grand Geode, unless you have business there, offers no information.
All you need is either when you get to Grand Geode ask about acquiring a part of the Dawn Machine to which they say something like &quoteyes you with deadly suspicion For the a piece of the heart that is the Dawn Machine we would ask for something equally illuminating and powerful. It is unlikely you will ever have something of that much importance.&quot And then the Mechanic goes &quotIt is impossible to approach the Dawn Machine without dying as a side effect. We’re going to have to deal with these people eventually.&quot

So then the player goes OKAY I HAVE TO COME BACK LATER. Simple. Not NOTHING. There is no way at all I could ever know that I couldn’t complete that quest without completing another quest, or that there wasn’t something I was supposed to do like fight a giant sun creature or anything. There was NO INFORMATION. I HAD NO IDEA.

Being a game of trial and pure quest nuance is being a wiki game. And it’s 2015. There is no reason for that.

And arguing against that is like saying &quotI love opening up the wiki.&quot Well I don’t. I feel like I’m just going through the motions when I open up a wiki game. It’s already complete. I already know what happens.

What’s the point?
edited by SenTerran on 2/15/2015

10

If the Khanian frigates aren’t directly connected to the Khan, then you shouldn’t gain suspicion for killing them.

As for the speed thing, I feel like the bigger the ship, the faster the top speed should be (no matter how counter-intuitive that might be). That way, as you progress through the game, and have specific objectives, and can kill everything pretty easily, it’s less about hitting every port and more about closing up story loops, you can get where you need to be much more quickly.

11

First point I agree with. Sounds like a great idea, especially the part about being hailed by ships. Would be nice to get when arrive in Khan’s heart. A message telling us to identify ourselves and our motives. Definitely something for the devs to consider I think.

As for game speed…a hesitant disagree from me. When I first started playing, the speed didn’t bother me. I enjoyed sailing from place to place. Then as I got better, I managed to get the Fulgent Impeller and now, I’m going so fast and using so little fuel that it makes me think the progression is fine. You go from being a slow, weak ship, to zipping around the zee in seconds. I think increasing speed will actually detract from atmosphere. The zee is supposed to be a vast, terrifying place and it’s not once you can outrun anything and reach ports before SAY even hits. As for the Tireless Mechanic, I believe there were/are plans for there to be other ways to get Elements of Dawn. However, I don’t really mind if they do this. It’s possible to get both the momento mori and the fulgent impeller by getting the mori on one captain, killing him off, then transferring the mori to the next captain using the rival legacy. That way you can make a second mori after handing the first in for the element of dawn. Yes, it’s long winded but you end up with the best weapon and best engine in the game, so I’d say it’s worth it.

Hold size is fine in my opinion. My progression goes starter ship < Yacht (70 hold) < Merchant ship (120 hold, if I decide it’s worth it, otherwise I skip it) < Dreadnaught (100 hold). They want to make it so that you have to pick and choose what you keep and what you have to throw out. Ruins the &quotsurvival&quot aspect if you can just hoard 200 fuel. However, I agree something has to change about the hold in one or two situations, like the Port Cecil quest line. You can earn over 70 units of Schintillack from that quest chain. So only 2 boats can physically hold it all. That’s not fair. You shouldn’t have to dump half of your reward into the zee because you don’t have enough hold space.

About changing the ships, I agree to an extent. I agree that if you’re upgrading from the starter ship, there is no point going for another ship that has similar or less hold. It’s just a waste of money. However, 100 hold space, or even 70 from the yacht, I think is enough. Once I upgraded to 70 hold, I never had another problem, except in the mention Port Cecil quest.
Luck based items…I can’t really think of any other examples to the living specimen. I know strange catch is kinda luck based, but I’ve still got loads throughout my play time. I think there’s only one or two ways to get a Living Specimen and if you get unlucky with it, you can always just buy a couple. They don’t really have THAT much use anyway. So I’m not sure anything needs to be changed here unless you can come up with a few more examples.

EDIT: And about it not being clear how to get the Element of Dawn…I think I agree with you there. While it makes sense to assume that the Grand Geode is part of the Dawn Machine, and it will tell you what you will if you have the moment mori, there isnt ANYTHING if you DONT have the momento mori. So you’re left at the Grand Geode certain this is where you need to be but with no way of confirming it. So yeah, I agree just a little bit of text saying, &quotCome back when you have something valuable to trade with&quot would be ideal.
edited by Madmurdock on 2/15/2015

12

[quote=Madmurdock]And about it not being clear how to get the Element of Dawn…I think I agree with you there. While it makes sense to assume that the Grand Geode is part of the Dawn Machine, and it will tell you what you will if you have the moment mori, there isnt ANYTHING if you DONT have the momento mori. So you’re left at the Grand Geode certain this is where you need to be but with no way of confirming it. So yeah, I agree just a little bit of text saying, &quotCome back when you have something valuable to trade with&quot would be ideal.
edited by Madmurdock on 2/15/2015[/quote]

The Impellor is a pretty big effort to get. Even if you know exactly what you’re doing, by the time you have it, you’ve likely sailed all over the map 10-15 times, and if you’re paying attention, it’s possible you’ve more or less completed everything else. I know I have.

But, to your point, lots of other places have interactions with things blocked out. Once you have the Tireless Mechanic, perhaps the element of dawn interaction should appear, showing the bits and pieces you need.

Finally, while doing exactly as you suggest (two moris through legacies), I noticed something very strange. You can have 2 equippale items in your hold, but when you equip either one, they both disppear, only to reappear when you unequip. Freaked me out for a second. Buy a couple of cheap guns from London, and equip them and you’ll see what I mean.

13

[quote=Madmurdock]First point I agree with. Sounds like a great idea, especially the part about being hailed by ships. Would be nice to get when arrive in Khan’s heart. A message telling us to identify ourselves and our motives. Definitely something for the devs to consider I think.

As for game speed…a hesitant disagree from me. When I first started playing, the speed didn’t bother me. I enjoyed sailing from place to place. Then as I got better, I managed to get the Fulgent Impeller and now, I’m going so fast and using so little fuel that it makes me think the progression is fine. You go from being a slow, weak ship, to zipping around the zee in seconds. I think increasing speed will actually detract from atmosphere. The zee is supposed to be a vast, terrifying place and it’s not once you can outrun anything and reach ports before SAY even hits. As for the Tireless Mechanic, I believe there were/are plans for there to be other ways to get Elements of Dawn. However, I don’t really mind if they do this. It’s possible to get both the momento mori and the fulgent impeller by getting the mori on one captain, killing him off, then transferring the mori to the next captain using the rival legacy. That way you can make a second mori after handing the first in for the element of dawn. Yes, it’s long winded but you end up with the best weapon and best engine in the game, so I’d say it’s worth it.

Hold size is fine in my opinion. My progression goes starter ship < Yacht (70 hold) < Merchant ship (120 hold, if I decide it’s worth it, otherwise I skip it) < Dreadnaught (100 hold). They want to make it so that you have to pick and choose what you keep and what you have to throw out. Ruins the &quotsurvival&quot aspect if you can just hoard 200 fuel. However, I agree something has to change about the hold in one or two situations, like the Port Cecil quest line. You can earn over 70 units of Schintillack from that quest chain. So only 2 boats can physically hold it all. That’s not fair. You shouldn’t have to dump half of your reward into the zee because you don’t have enough hold space.

About changing the ships, I agree to an extent. I agree that if you’re upgrading from the starter ship, there is no point going for another ship that has similar or less hold. It’s just a waste of money. However, 100 hold space, or even 70 from the yacht, I think is enough. Once I upgraded to 70 hold, I never had another problem, except in the mention Port Cecil quest.
Luck based items…I can’t really think of any other examples to the living specimen. I know strange catch is kinda luck based, but I’ve still got loads throughout my play time. I think there’s only one or two ways to get a Living Specimen and if you get unlucky with it, you can always just buy a couple. They don’t really have THAT much use anyway. So I’m not sure anything needs to be changed here unless you can come up with a few more examples.

EDIT: And about it not being clear how to get the Element of Dawn…I think I agree with you there. While it makes sense to assume that the Grand Geode is part of the Dawn Machine, and it will tell you what you will if you have the moment mori, there isnt ANYTHING if you DONT have the momento mori. So you’re left at the Grand Geode certain this is where you need to be but with no way of confirming it. So yeah, I agree just a little bit of text saying, &quotCome back when you have something valuable to trade with&quot would be ideal.
edited by Madmurdock on 2/15/2015[/quote]

Yeah on revision, I could just be very unlucky in regards to drops.

I can concede I may have gone overboard with hull sizes. But you can completely ignore Cutter and Corvette (even if it has a forward weapon which is a nice bonus). If the Corvette and Cutter had additions to hold size then I can warrant getting them. With enough duking you can win any fight barring the Dawn Machine Frigate and even then you’ll just take some damage.
Oh that leads me to another suggestion. I’ll put it at the end.

My problem with the game speed is that it seems like a chug UNTIL you get the impeller. Like you have to get the doomsday engine to move at a decent rate. To me, the best sold engine should move at a decent rate and the doomsday engine should move at a RIDICULOUS rate. It shouldn’t be a &quotmust have so the game is actually convenient&quot item.

============== Enemy AI suuuuuuuuuucks ================

Unless it’s the spiked ball or a ship that can shoot backwards, then you can just sail around their back and they just keep trying to slowly turn to face you. I can understand for the giant cumbersome enemies but make the enemies try and get some distance between you in order to hit you and make the small enemies like sharks and eels be more agile. It feels like an exploit just constantly duking, not me being good.
edited by SenTerran on 2/15/2015
edited by SenTerran on 2/15/2015

14

[quote=SenTerran]============== Enemy AI suuuuuuuuuucks ================

Unless it’s the spiked ball or a ship that can shoot backwards, then you can just sail around their back and they just keep trying to slowly turn to face you. I can understand for the giant cumbersome enemies but make the enemies try and get some distance between you in order to hit you and make the small enemies like sharks and eels be more agile. It feels like an exploit just constantly duking, not me being good.[/quote]
This appears to be fixed in the testing branch, at least for zee-monsters. Will probably still be true of pirate ships and the like.

15

All I want is to be able to go to the shops to sell things before you have to dump it, if you’re in port. I mean, you’re in port. You can pile stuff on the deck if you want, as long as it’s not still there when you leave. Either that or when you get a lot of quest reward an option to say &quotI don’t have space right now, can you hold this until I come back?&quot Especially when it’s a matter of someone giving you stuff, if they like you enough to give it all to you they probably wouldn’t mind waiting until you can actually take it. :P

(Incidentally I’ll be glad when a) I have a better computer and b) frame rate isn’t tied to turn speed, because at the moment there are a lot of enemies where I’M the one slowly turning and never able to get them back into my shooting range.)

16

They changed the Principles reward so, fortunately, you don’t need to have over 70 hold space. I do think getting 70 regular Scintillack was a bit much and it is much nicer to get some of the blue :)

So, normally, I can complete all the quests with the Frigate. I am running a Merchant Ship this game as I started from scratch and want to take the Venturer north at some point and his 40 supplies mean that I would rather have the extra space.

17

Wait, what? D’you mean the final reward used to be 70 units of scintillack all at once, or do you mean the reward for each request fulfilled has recently been changed from multiple units of scintillack to a single piece of blue scintillack?

18

You definitely still get bits of scintillack from each piece you hand in, I’ve given him two and I have 14 pieces in my hold.

19

It’s still seven pieces of scintillack per piece. I don’t think the total is anywhere near 70, but it’s definitely more than 40. I usually only turn in a few at a time, then pass by Fathomking’s Hold and London though, so it’s rarely been a problem.

Now, certain quests on the Isle of Cats, on the other hand…
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015

20

[quote=Gregg Johnson]It’s still seven pieces of scintillack per piece. I don’t think the total is anywhere near 70, but it’s definitely more than 40. I usually only turn in a few at a time, then pass by Fathomking’s Hold and London though, so it’s rarely been a problem.

Now, certain quests on the Isle of Cats, on the other hand…
edited by Olorin on 2/15/2015[/quote]

I once tried doing the isle of cats quest AND turning in three parts of the principles quest at once. In the tramp steamer.

That went well.