Suggestion: More diversity

Sunless Sea
1

after the free weekend on steam i bought the game, because i like the storys and the gameplay. There are a few things i don’t like as much. As someone who likes progress in game i was more than a little disappointed as i could not buy any ship from other factions as from london or get new and more wares for better prices (also equipment). i know that i can get some good equipment by following the storyline but not that much. Also the a.i seems to be a bit flawed: it gets stuck very often, ignores vortex (it can just cross ist), ignore ships from enemy factions (if a pirate crosses a monster or a freighter it does not shoot) do they have some kind of gentleman agreement?

right now this game is much storyline and less gameplay and i hope if you plan to do an addon that there will be a little more gameplay and things going on at the zea (the zea is really tranquille right now, a good way to meditate) a few suggestion: battles between different factions you could stumble in on the zea, maybe even ships who sometimes help you win a fight, if you win a challenge.

Also, for me as a new player it is hard to progress because some items have only a little information text (if at all) so you never know if that item is important or not. you get a feeling for those things sooner or later but then you have so many different items (because you know that you need them for different questlines) that you have no place on your ship to hold them. Something like a bank account in london would be useful to store items.

And then, the trade factor of this game: its a pitty. On one side normal trade routes don’t do much or any profit, because, so i think, the game wants the player to focus on the storyline. on the other hand you need money to progress in the storyline and at a certain point in the game there are only few ways to obtain it (dealing sunlight, golems, spider eggs) and so on, which you cannot direclty buy in a port but which just act like things you could directly buy in a port.

so, there it is back again. the trading part :) just hidden behind the trade goods that you don’t need to bother with. And the sunlight deals sooner or later will kill your character if you don’t rest for a looooong time. its as if this parts of the game are not in a final state where i would say that they work.

The storyline quests do to less money or ships, and equipment so that you could just focus on them, following the best part of the game, the written part. It would be great if you get more items, even equipment through that storyline. it would be great even if that was normal equipment, like the things you can buy in london (new engines, lights, ships)

right now, i have to grind ( at least sunlight, golems, strategic reports) for hours to progress in my storylines as i need things that need things that need things that i already have forgotten about (which is also … meh)

Back to the point: I do like this game. I just that a few things can make this good game a great one :)

2

so a few more: what like if you could work for a london trade organisation where you can buld a reputation and get different freighters or you work for the Admiral and get battle ships if you get up the ranks by doing strategic work all over the map. would love that

3

Feel free to keep discussing these topics here, but the creators are more likely to read it if you email feedback (at) failbettergames.com

4

There are a couple other viable trading grinds, specifically coffee to Vienna and red honey, but I believe it’s intentional that the game makes trade so difficult. The Unterzee is not a friendly place and story shows that only a few established companies really succeed in trading. Hence the independent captains have to go loot other ships or complete specific requests.

5

Well considering that Red Honey and Surface trading results in the considerable loss of human minds and life respectably, it makes sense that they’re generally profitable.

6

From what I’ve gathered in playing both Fallen London and Sunless Sea, trade with the surface isn’t actually that dangerous on its own. The big risk is obviously sunlight, but just going above for a day or two isn’t deadly with travel by night. Plenty of surface traders also bring expensive food and goods down to London since being in the Neath a short time isn’t very illegal.

7

First of all, Sunless Sea is a great game and makes a lot of fun, however, I have also a few suggestions, which could improve the gameplay:

Regarding battle:

  • Fighting multiple enemies should be possible (it is annoying to fight two Auroral Megalops and being able only to shoot at one of them and being continuously hit by the other one).[/li][li]It should be possible to open fire on enemies (sneak and hit… it is annoying to wait until they have spot your vessel).

[ul][li]It is nice to discover the sunless sea, however, I appreciate more detailled descriptions of quests (sometimes there are helpful descriptions, sometimes not) in the journal.
[/li][li]Highlighting (or removing) completed quests would be great.[/li][/ul]Regarding legacy:

[ul][li]As mentioned before it is a lot of fun to reveal the mysteries of the zee, however, without reading the &quotwiki&quot some achievements, for example collecting the legacy items, are (in my opinion) almost impossible to discover, because it is a matter of luck to choose the right order of decisions to receive them. They should be obtained by doing very hard challanges, but not by &quotdelivering cargo from the Salt Lions to Fallen London without having chosen a past (who guesses this?!?) and speaking with the right person&quot. Because this is a little bit frustrating.
[/li][li]It should be possible to &quotmake&quot a new scion after Salts curse has been triggered, because this curse is really an unfair one (or at least there should be a hint, how to remove Salts curse, because again, without reading the wiki, it is almost impossible to know, that the House of Questions helps).[/li][/ul]Regarding Stories:

[ul][li]The Khanate should also offer jobs, working for the Khanate would be a great innovation.[/li][li]When the Admiral vanishes (because you have been working for the Anarchists, or the Dawn Machine) there should be another possibility to make use of the Port Reports. Maybe the Anarchists or the Diplomatic Agent are also interested in collecting Port Reports… or the Khanate…[/li][li]There should be more storylines concerning the Anarchists, the Khanate and the Dawn Machine…[/li][/ul][ul][li]Smuggling sunlight could be part of a second questline from the Blind Bruiser.[/li][li]All three curses of the gods should have a drastic effect.
[/li][/ul]Regarding Equipment

  • Some other ports should also offer (different) ship equipment.[/li][li]The ship engines should be more balanced and being worth to buy them.[/li][li]A nice effect of &quotobscure energies&quot could be a reduction of fuel costs of the ship lantern.
  • There definitely should be an officer which is able to increase pages.
8

You can target an enemy before it spots you … just click on it or you can press “tab”, but that doesn’t always work out. If there are two enemies or a neutral vessel in range the wrong target can be chosen and that target can be off screen!

9

Sorry, mods. I accidentally clicked the report button in this thread. :nosmile:

I agree about the legacy items. With how long one run can take I would get bored of the game long before I’d get all of them through experimentation alone.

10

Although I don’t entirely disagree with many of the suggestions made above; I’m going to obliquely address those I disagree with that I think relate to theme and story.

I think having to search out the mysteries/legacies and lore, and it often being d–m hard to do so, is an important part of Sunless Sea (and Fallen London for that matter).

You are meant to be bewildered, especially when first starting out. You are in terrifying underground cavern filled with monsters, it is meant to be confusing and a little bit uncomfortable. If the game makes you the player feel that way, that to me is a good thing. Not knowing what is going on half the time adds to that and makes things all the more interesting.

I think much the same thing applies with certain decisions and story-lines that cause permanent(ish) loses. These potential dangers add meaning to the decisions. It might detract from the gameplay to not know at all what pressing a certain button will do or to have an innocuous seeming action go horribly wrong; but it does add to the atmosphere and to the story being told. You are I think, meant to fail (often) and then learn from it for next time round.

To focus on one example. If say trading was profitable and easy, SS would be game about easy and profitable trading and not dangerous and fraught exploration that often ends in cannibalism. The best way to progress is to explore, sometimes recklessly, it is perhaps not a coincidence that that is often also the best way to die.

Combat is perhaps not the best, (but you can always run away). Personally I like that the interface makes fighting all the more risky. Battling zee-monsters in a steamship is hard, it meant to be hard. They are giant zee-monsters :) You as a player are supposed to dread doing it unless you are in a massive tank of a dreadnought, precisely because you could well die and lose everything.

These things are sometime annoying and difficult; but I think that they are supposed to be. The Unterzee is meant to be full of captains that came to horrible lonely ends; and Sunless Sea lets (maybe even requires?) you to play as those poor captains. To be a successful captain means taking risks and doing horribly dangerous things. SS is a game that a lot of the time is trying to tell that story as much as any other.

I really really liked Sunless Sea when I first played but I admit it really frustrated the absolute bejesus out of me. I’ll link this video-review from last May on RPS; as it helped me a lot to understand why those two seemingly contrary things fit together to make me love the game so much.

I should add that I’m not trying to criticise anyone making suggestions to improve the game. I think that’s a really very useful thing to do and it pays to have differing opinions. I agree that a lot of things already said may well make the gameplay better. It is only that sometime, I think the things people want altered could make playing SS a much less interesting experience. It’s really hard to balance theme, atmosphere and story with fun and exciting game play; especially when a strong part of what you are trying to get across is the horror, loneliness and despair of your setting. I think SS finds a really interesting place to rest in that juggling act. Of course that balance can always be tweaked and improved, but I think something unique risks being lost if that is not done very carefully. I certainly wouldn’t know how.

I’ll also give some links to what I think is a good interview of the developers during development Part 1 and Part 2. And the Great Tiger’s own postmortem of Sunless Sea.

TLDR: Watch the video I linked in the middle ;)
edited by Charlotte_de_Witte on 2/13/2016