Should Exceptional Stories have lasting effects?

Fallen London
1

Ok, so for a while since the whole exceptional story thing started, I kept up with my subscription. A story a month gave a good reason to keep playing.

But as I played more of them i realized something. A lot of these stories could have major, London shaking repercussions that could massively shake up the way we even think about the game… and nothing is done with them. I apparently have a machine and a architect that I could use to become a new Moriarty or empower my allies… and it sits doing nothing in a basement. I braved the jungles of the Carnelian Coast and edged closer to the Mountain of Light then anyone has ever done before… and yet I am no closer to becoming a immortal god. I ensured that a marriage occurred between 2 monsters that was the talk of the town… and nothing has come of it. People don’t talk of it. I did not even get a damm thank you note. Not that i expected one considering who was married, but still.

Point is, I’ve done things that could change London forever… yet London stays the same. It’s made me stop subscribing and playing, because in a game about stories, there’s no consequence or reward for those stories. London remains as it always was.

If you agree, I’m curious what effects there should be, or if different stories should have different ones.

2

One small comment: The Marriage of Feducci was not an Exceptional Story, but a &quotregular&quot Fate story (like &quotThe Gift&quot or &quotThe Empress’ Shadow&quot).

3

It does not make difference IMO. I’m agree with OP and enjoy stories which have an impact on my everyday London life a most! I’m really glad to see a V.C.R. guy from &quotA Trade in Souls&quot or Devout Intriguer from &quotForeign Affairs&quot in my opportunity deck, and urge to open Flute Street, Empyrean Redolence, All Things Must End and other stuff with permanent effects because these things feel like an always present reward and reminder of adventure you participated.

I think single Exceptional Stories shall add a little option to some existing storylet, one of 2-3, based on player choice. Like an extra event in a Cheery Man / Last Constable card, new special person to rob in Big Score, new option on one of Favour cards, new Interview card for a gazette, new guest in the Polite Invitation event etc. And a full season shall add something special, like a permanent storylet, item/companion with opportunity card, small to medium carousel, a special location, developed contact NPC (like Sardomic Music-Hall Singer and others), new pet to hunt and breed, etc.

Dreams: Unchained Desire is now 27!
Nightmares increasing…

4

Exceptional Stories with possible lasting effects:

Lost in Reflections (tie-in with The Calendar Code)
Cut with Moonlight (farming Mirrorcatch Boxes, plus &quotVisions of Upstairs&quot storylets)
Flint (new permanent location, several possible items to keep)
The Frequently Deceased (tie-in with The Empress’ Shadow)
5 Minutes to Midday (different option on the Hell faction card)
The Chimney-Pot Wars (unique Urchin companions if you don’t finish it)
The Clay Man’s Arm (guess what)
HOJOTOHO! (new option on Urchins faction card, one-time Foreign Office tie-in)
All Things Must End (new permanent location)
The Sinking Synod (possible new Addressed As quality)
The Pursuit of Moths (unique clothing)
The Rat-Catcher (unique companion)

So it’s not like there aren’t any, and these are just the ones I could think of off the top of my hat. And don’t forget those that leave you with huge lore revelations, like The Waltz That Moved the World, The Calendar Code or The Attendants. In my book, that’s a lot better than another item cluttering my inventory, or some repeatable storylet I’ll stop reading after a few weeks.

Yes, sometimes you’d wish for an ES to have some lasting effect/give you some unique item. But with some it’s just as nice to experience them as standalone stories without major consequences (e.g. The Heart, the Devil, and the Zee). And I can think of some ES that I’m quite glad didn’t leave any traces and I can just pretend never happened (e.g. Steeped in Honey). I think FB are offering us a good variety, all things considered. The large, major effects the OP is talking about would be rather difficult to implement anyway. You can’t have each month’s story completely change some players’ games.
edited by phryne on 6/3/2018

5

The Marriage of Feducci unlocks a single storylet (if you let them marry) which is the best way to farm Romantic Notions in FL.

6

[quote=phryne]Exceptional Stories with possible lasting effects:

The Pursuit of Moths (unique clothing)

[/quote]

Just me nitpicking, but I think the clothing from The Pursuit of Moths is one of the items that will be turned in whenever the Season’s concluding story appears. So, technically, it wouldn’t be a permanent item.

7

Having lasting effects would effect the non-EF people who play the game, as well as the people who became EFs later then other people. Lock too many things behind EF stories and it goes from being something nice to have that doesn’t impact overall gameplay that much to a must-have if people want to do grinding efficiently as possible. Being an EF (or buying a bunch of FATE-locked stories if you’re a new EF) is already a must-have if you want to experience Fallen London’s lore for yourself as opposed to reading about it elsewhere. The game doesn’t need more extreme versions of that in new locations, altered events, better item grinds, BIS items, etc.

8

Well, it depends in my opinion, if you mean with lasting effects mementos, quite a few do have lasting effects. And not every ES really has to leave anything behind. For example: I’d prefer a lore-heavy ES that leaves a grand impression (example the Waltz that Moved the World) rather than one that leaves an item or grindable storylet.
But what I would like is for example older ES tying into the new ones, the seasons entwining. For example like you could use your Daughter or Aunt in the Seven Day Reign! Or things like that ~
(I am aware that neither the aunt, nor your daughter were EF, they were seperate Fate stories.)
edited by Honeyaddict on 6/4/2018

9

Perhaps even stronger than that there is the entire Season of Skies, which allows you to set events into motion that might well some day in the unspecified future return London to the Surface.

Personally I would love to see more consequences carried over, but I am also aware of how much hassle it is to make changing world states that might differ between players. E.g. the mere story with the Cheery Man and the Last Constable had lasting repercussion but also makes it pretty much impossible to use either character again in the future without a lot of work.

10

As someone who has never been an exceptional friend in the 9 months since they have started playing (though this is likely going to change soon due to the financial windfall of &quothaving a summer job&quot) I protest this idea. Don’t get be wrong, it would definitely be interesting to get more tangible benefit and no doubt would require less suspension of disbelief in the realm of &quotThe city was almost destroyed in broad neath-light but the constables just arrested me for accidentally bumping into an old women.&quot However, as said by 0bsidian Fire most of the information available to us unexceptional friends is via. second hand sources. Most of my answers on the mysteries tab were only possible because of people being kind enough to reveal information on specific subjects. For example, with the exception of February (at least I think it was February) I have had no interaction with any member of the calendar council whatsoever except through the Anarchist renown item. Most of the information on the Calendar Council is found in The Calendar Code (or, at least that’s what I heard from my second hand account of all of it) which kinda sucks. The Calendar Council sounds intriguing, I want to learn more about it. How do we implement some of the information from The Calendar Code code as a permanent effect though?

If everybody reaps the benefits of exceptional stories having a permanent impact? If so… how do we implement it? Imagine that you go to the store and see a movie on the shelf. You can look at the front, at the summary on the back, you can see who played in the movie… everything except actually watch it. What we would have to worry about if everybody reaps the benefit of this tangible result of the story is a little sticker on the front talking about the special features. If it talks about the hiring of the actors or the exposition of the movie (different from the summary that’s on the back) then that would be a lovely way to implement it. However, say that movie was one called &quotCitizen Kane&quot and on that special features sticker it instead talks about how they decided to make rosebud be a sled. It may not be a major spoiler until after you finished the movie but it ruins the twist and tempers your expectations of the movie on everything up until the reveal. Without any warning and with no way to combat against it you now know more than you’d like about a movie you might want. You could not tell the difference between that sentence talking about the actors or some information on the movie and a major spoiler that my oversight had resulted in you seeing.

Another example is if you start reading the book series Discworld and you find out tha-

I’m going to stop right there. For those of you who have not read Discworld but might want to you may of encountered some resistance with how that sentence began (or realized it was to short to provide any good information). I just made, what I perceived as, a minor oversight that in was in reality a major bit of information. Who is to say lightning could never strike twice? Humans are fallible we make mistakes twice even if we should know better. So if distributing it freely is potentially dangerous for people who want to buy the movie but cannot yet for whatever reason why not keep it just for exceptional friends… maybe after the story to avoid any issues regarding revealing the wrong thing.

I shouldn’t need a long-winded metaphor to illustrate the key problem here. Now we have more content being locked behind a paywall. Not just stories and lore now but unique and potentially good items and locations as well now.

I think it’s safe to say that everybody here considers minmaxing secondary to the stories in regards to their enjoyment of the game but I think we can all also agree that never being able to have max BDR has a little bit of sting to it.

I’ll admit that for my verbose first example of distributing freely I’m show an extreme side of it and I trust Failbetter would be vigilant enough to catch anything like that before it became publicly available. The second example is completely realistic though (it’s part of the description of it after all) and I stand by both of my points regardless.

I love this idea, I would have subscribed months ago if it was in place. But it’s unfriendly for free to plays and, perhaps more notably, green players because suddenly I would have had to subscribe months ago. I just don’t understand how it would be done. Maybe it’s because I’m still new relative to other players but I’ve been able to say money is not an object for a while now and menaces are no longer, well, menacing. I’ve done well for myself and I’d like to think I know enough about the game to see where something could become a problem if it was implemented. I see this as a problem if it was implemented.

I need to stop being so verbose.

Sorry to people who haven’t seen Citizen Kane by the way but I needed a martyr and a movie infamous for it’s biggest spoiler becoming common knowledge seemed an acceptable target.

11

Others have said my concerns and points re: &quotother ES having lasting effects&quot and &quotdifficulty of adjusting the setting of Fallen London given sheer amount of text, number of ESes, and individual vs community gameplay&quot better than I could, so I won’t repeat those thoughts here. Overall, I do have mixed feelings - I like collecting Companions and items and the like, especially unusual or unique ones, so those are fun for me to obtain. And with some stories, it does feel like there could be more lasting effects or options that would serve as a reminder that I did the ES.[color=rgb(194, 194, 194)] [/color]Alternatively, it would be nice to keep the items you normally turn in at the end of season story - yes, they would take up inventory space, but why not create a section called &quotTrophies&quot or whatnot to serve as an enduring reminder of what you went through?

At the same time, it seems like OP is more getting at major gameplay or character-affecting story and setting changes depending on ES, and this I think is overall beyond the scope of what ESes are or should be. Take the three examples listed in OP’s statement:

&quot[color=rgb(194, 194, 194)] I apparently have a machine and a architect that I could use to become a new Moriarty or empower my allies… and it sits doing nothing in a basement. I braved the jungles of the Carnelian Coast and edged closer to the Mountain of Light then anyone has ever done before… and yet I am no closer to becoming a immortal god. I ensured that a marriage occurred between 2 monsters that was the talk of the town… and nothing has come of it. People don’t talk of it&quot

How do you express the ability to &quotbecome a new Moriarty or empower my allies&quot through the text-based gameplay of the Fallen London system? How would you implement &quotbecoming [closer to] an immortal god?&quot There actually is a permanent storylet you can unlock after doing the last story, and while it woul[/color]d be nice to have more than 1 text result (technically 2, but unless you replay the story you’ll end up with only 1) for the post-story storylet it still reflects that something has come of your work. Additional storylets or options on cards seem the best way of doing this, and that’s what several stories have done in the past, because it allows for new text and a sense that your actions had weight.

Personally, what I would like best would be more purely textual rewards: having more choices where, given a variety of options, you can choose additional options based on past ESes you’ve played and the endings you chose. For example, see SPOILER NOTE 1 (spoilers for the Art of Murder). These can’t really affect the setting too much, because the setting is limited by the amount of text made to describe that setting and because otherwise players who regularly played a lot of ESes would end up inhabiting very different London’s than those who did not and of course what happens when you mix and match the effects of multiple ESes together and that’s when you get into RP to explore the ramifications of your actions. But it might help alleviate the sense that nothing you do in ESes matter.
Sidenote for Sinning Jenny’s Fate school story, see SPOILER NOTE 2.

[color=rgb(194, 194, 194)]So [spoiler][/color]SPOILER NOTE 1: in the Art of Murder, a story with a neat-sounding premise (the newest hottest trend in art is murder!) and a mildly disappointing conclusion (something about a snuffer and drawing out the Thief of Faces), two possible endings involve sparing the life of a snuffer rather than killing her. While you do get a reward that is basically like, 12.50 worth of items (eh), what if in a future story involving Elder Continent or snuffer lore where you had to do investigation there was an option unlocked by those two endings where you called upon the snuffer’s aid and they helped you progress? Or take the Persona Engine: you have a difficult cipher to crack, and normally the two options are pay someone to crack it for you or do it yourself with a mid-game Watchful check. But if you have the ending quality that marks you as preserving the Persona Engine, you have a third option where you use that to crack the cipher instead. SPOILER NOTE 2: So normally for the school you can grind for Bohemian, Church, Revolutionary, and Urchin favors relatively easily and Docks, Great Game, and Tomb-Colonist favors with more difficulty. If you played the Frequently Deceased, you unlock another character for grinding Society favors. This is a cool &quotreminder that these stories have consequences&quot thing in line with the thread topic. But why are Rubbery, Criminal, Constable, and Hell options not available? We could totally use additional stories or reworking old stories that unlock additional pupils for the school.[color=rgb(194, 194, 194)][/spoiler] Also, formatting these things is a pain. [/color]
edited by Hotshot Blackburn on 6/5/2018
edited by Hotshot Blackburn on 6/5/2018

12

I don’t think this is a problem for free players - as long as no ESes provide best-in-slot items (which I agree they really shouldn’t), any rewards will at best be mementoes. At that point only collectors should find an issue with this, but I think it’s fair that a memento of a story is only available to those who played (and paid for) the story; a collector could focus only on non-fate-locked items, for instance.

On the other hand, there seems to be a trend starting up in giving out items - two stories last season did so, and now the first story of this season gave a Home Comfort of all things - and I think that if too many stories give out items, it will lose significance. The Rat-Catcher gave a permanent companion and we were all thrilled. But its stats aren’t particularly notable; it in itself doesn’t bring much lore; it represents lore, and is exotic, but so would most such rewards be (this month’s map certainly is), and getting an exotic token like this once a month would very quickly cheapen the effect.

An extra option on a storylet or an opportunity card? Sure, perhaps not every time but I’d appreciate it more frequently than it’s done now. A token “you wanted lore-related items, here’s a tangentially related item with +3/+2 stats”? Only sparingly, please. They need to have value.

TL;DR: yes, I’d like more consequences than right now, but don’t cheapen it by overdoing it.

13

The companion from the Rat-Catcher has 2+ BDR. The only other BDR companions better then it are FATE locked (Bifurcated Owl, Your Perpetually Festive Rubbery Friend, or Ubergoat). If you’re in mid-game and aren’t spending FATE (or have all the items needed to get certain options) it’s BIS for BDR. It’s also specifically warned which choice in the story will loose you the companion and every single ending will result in you getting it so long as you don’t pick the specific choice that consumes it.

Yes, the Bones of London gives a home comfort, but out of the four possible endings, only one gets you it. The fact that not everyone gets it is probably what gives it the non-BIS stats that it has. Those are the kind of items I’m more okay with getting. The BIS Home Comfort items are all gotten from having high Renown or at Christmas for the BIS BDR items. Companions on the other hand… we don’t have a lot of +2 BDR companions and all of them require FATE.

14

Ah yes, but it’s tied with the Unfinished Hat for BIS non-fate, as well as a few hard-to-get but technically non-fate items (a past hallowmass Goldfish, a profession item, and an Overgoat that’s just very expensive). It doesn’t raise BIS, and the Hat is relatively simple to get as soon as you have a ship, so I think that’s fine.

I wouldn’t mind one or two BIS rewards, in fact. That would lead to “that one story with an amazing reward” - similar to e.g. unlocking a permanent area (that had one of the best echo grinds for a while), and the like. But that definitely shouldn’t happen more than once or twice.

15

I think a lot of people in this thread are interpreting “lasting effects” to mean minor mechanical effects, where it was intended to mean major narrative effects.

Giving Fate-locked stories major narrative repercussions definitely seems like a bad idea. The only content with widespread effects is the Election, and even that is mostly limited to other seasonal events. Modifying existing content takes work; making that modification only effect certain players would take far more. Especially when doing so for far more stories each year while trying not to exclude non-EFs.

I do like the minor mechanical rewards associated with some stories, more so when in the form of a slightly better option (e.g. HOJOTOHO!) rather than some equipment I’ll never use. Having more unlocks would make each one a bit less special, but it’s a nice compromise on letting Fate stories change London.

16

It is a very delicate balance, giving Exceptional Friends something extra and still not making subscription a must for others. Supposedly, we pay to play the story, and everything else is a bonus. Moreover, if you add a world-changing event, you have to make sure London changes the same way for everyone - Feducci’s marriage for example left us with two different Londons and I resent that.

To be honest, I love stories like Jenny’s school and the Soul Trade that leave your character with more options and different ways to play the game (both are game-changers) but I feel that more than that would unbalance FL. Now, if you get to other options through a grind (i.e. the Parabola base-camp), that would be fairer.
In the end, I do see your point (I am a Paramount Presence and still hunted for petty theft? Still cannot get back my University department?) but I employ suspension of disbelief and enjoy the minor benefits of each story - and of course, the story itself.

17

I do love how on this forum you can read other’s opinions on this particular manner and it changes my opinion slightly. It gives a good vision of both EF and non-EF players.
You just can’t not love this community!