[quote=]"Had to type this THRICE AUGH."
This question has been asked countless times. I say countless because I don’t want to count the amount of forum posts about it.
Anyways. The question always varies, yes?
"How do I make echos?"
"How do I make a bunch of monies?"
"What is the greatest Echo to action ratio?"
"How do I go about preforming a gnarly grind?"
No matter the context, the answers always remained the same. They were thought. They were sought. They were charted. They were graphed.
They were… dare I say it… math-ed.
And so… I have a question. A new kind of question that should change the formula…
What is the highest echo to action ratio… if risk is slain?
What if risk was dead, and all of your actions succeeded without fail?
What would you be willing to commit, knowing that everything would lack a negative consequence?
The Fidgeting Writer arc comes to mind. Surely, guarantied success for every gamble would make it absurdly profitable. Yet… I feel like there is some better way…
That is all.
(And to you masochistic thinkers: consider the same question, except every success is a rare success,)
Can’t think of anything non-rare better than fidgeting writer if you never fail, but…robbing the drunken rat:
€230 per action!
Of course you’d run out of ‘someone coming’ pretty soon.
I’m pretty sure the best non-card based grind would be using the university to get cryptic clues (from the investigating grind + cashing in investigating in the flit) and getting bags of low quality diamonds in the bazaar sidestreets (rare success of getting a magnificent diamond).
Another possible contender would be getting eyeless skulls from the forgotten quarter.
edited by Kaijyuu on 5/31/2017
230 Echoes per Action would make even the Struggling Artist a pretty popular guy. There’s lots of Someone Is Coming to be found in cards that don’t provide much else in the way of profits. Though of course, even with a steady supply of such cards, it would still take six Actions to get the necessary level to attempt the action that has that rare success, lowering the profitability to somewhere around 32.85 EPA.
edited by Gillsing on 5/31/2017
Haha yes. I always used to sleep with the artist when he showed up and once I drew the capering relicker card 8 times in a row.
I don’t know if it offset the amount of jade I spent on him, but it was kind of funny nonetheless :P
edited by Kukapetal on 5/31/2017
Heists would always be no more than 15 actions (1 to plan, 5 to prepare, 1 to proceed, 7 to progress, 1 to pick a prize). "Mr. Baseborn’s Papers" returns 2 Bazaar Permits and 100 Cryptic Clues, which sell at the Bazaar for a grand total of 27 echoes for the whole affair, averaging to exactly 1.8 echoes per action. A Troublesome Lock and A Promising Door each give an extra Burglar’s Progress, and A Clean Well-Lighted Place gives 9 Compromising Documents and 20 Stolen Correspondence alongside its +1 progress, so drawing any of those three pushes the EPA a bit higher.
Compare that to the no-fail Fidgeting Writer’s 43.14 EPA.
edited by Anchovies on 5/31/2017
You still have a finite number of items to fund the fidgeting writer and it will take a non-insignificant number of actions to acquire them.
My money’s on eyeless skulls, with the guaranteed rare success option.
But with Eyeless Skulls your airs will be rerolled, and not necessarily end up where you’d need them for another rare success. Or are we assuming that every roll and/or drawn card is going the best possible way for making money?
As for the Fidgeting Writer, 100 Echoes at the Bazaar and six Actions of mass conversions will get you 105 Tale of Terror!! So that’s a mere 0.057 Actions and 0.95 Echoes per Tale of Terror!! to start the Fidgeting Writer. Right? Once your EPA is high enough you wouldn’t want to waste time actually collecting your resources out in the wild, like a peasant.
And with the Fidgeting Writer thus beating the furious and incoherent rat, I guess it’s back to shunning the Struggling Artist.
edited by Gillsing on 6/1/2017
So for the purposes of this exercise, all risk is dead? Does this include meta risks like bankrupting yourself? Because I expect the most profitable grind is as usual spending Fate on Ray-Drenched Cinders at the entrance to the Cave of the Nadir, at a whopping 312.5 EPA.
Although, since we’re effectively giving ourselves probability manipulation powers for the purpose of this exercise, that means we can draw specific cards on demand. No cards come to mind that would allow faster profit than the Cinder grind but there could be something…
Money isn’t a risk, it’s a resource. If you can show that you have a scheme to spend infinite Fate, then perhaps it should count. But otherwise not.
Anyway, I just spent more time than I should have to figure out how much is left of those Eyeless Skulls after the time and connections it takes to sell them:
75 x Eyeless Skull -> 15 x Ray-Drenched Cinder = 4717.5 Echoes in 90 Actions
Wear the pin discreetly x 4 = 12 Actions -12 Whisper-Satin Scrap (0.659 Actions, -10.88 Echoes at the Bazaar)
4706.62 Echoes / 102.659 Actions = 45.85 Echoes/Action
So if The Airs of the Forgotten Quarter can be assumed to always end up giving a (guaranteed) chance for an Eyeless Skull, the skulls do seem to win over the Fidgeting Writer.
If you are talking about rare successes in the Forgotten Quarter getting Pulsating Amber would be more profitable than Eyeless Skulls - as you don’t need connections or to use an action to cash it in. Of course the airs option that gives one is less common than the two that might give a skull.
Edit - so overall for me the Seeking Curios in the Forgotten Quarter is likely to be most profitable. As it is something that does not require resources and has rare successes on four of its air dependent options. Also given the premise that you don’t fail the luck check on another option you will also get fewer nightmares.
edited by reveurciel on 6/1/2017
[quote=Anchovies]Heists would always be no more than 15 actions (1 to plan, 5 to prepare, 1 to proceed, 7 to progress, 1 to pick a prize). "Mr. Baseborn’s Papers" returns 2 Bazaar Permits and 100 Cryptic Clues, which sell at the Bazaar for a grand total of 27 echoes for the whole affair, averaging to exactly 1.8 echoes per action. A Troublesome Lock and A Promising Door each give an extra Burglar’s Progress, and A Clean Well-Lighted Place gives 9 Compromising Documents and 20 Stolen Correspondence alongside its +1 progress, so drawing any of those three pushes the EPA a bit higher.
Compare that to the no-fail Fidgeting Writer’s 43.14 EPA.
edited by Anchovies on 5/31/2017[/quote]
Heists would be closer to 13 actions for a searing enigma (risk is slain!), but that’s still a lowly 4.8 epa.
Even deriskmanipulating the jack vance card with into my hand every draw would only be 12.5 epa.
How about archaeology?
Best non-fate result is … 2 night-whispers? 125 echo
best luck is start with 3 progress and get 5 a signs
no need for supply grind
1 action to get in, 6 to get progress, 2 to grab reward.
Only 13.8 epa? WFT …
OK, how about a thieves cache.
1 card to get criminal favour.
1 action to get in, 3 signs, 2 to grab reward (I believe a searing enigma is just so possible here).
Bonuses include 500 souls and 100 cryptic clues.
(62.5+10+2)/6=12.42 epa, that’s not even better than shining blue stones, and that’s not even counting getting rid of suspicion
Oh, with card luck guaranteed, I know. One of the red nightmare cards gives >0.5e worth of stuff, and won’t raise nightmares unless unlucky. Infinity echoes.
With a one-time Fate investment, the EPA of any method becomes infinite.
Whenever you run out of actions, just draw the Wines!Aunt card for a guaranteed refresh.
If I were the sentimental type, playing through the story would be rewarding for the soul, not just paltry echoes.
But honestly, most of us in FL are awful people, so robbing a drunken rat for a pocket watch is something we’d do for fun and profit.
The Seeking Road -> Make a Wild Guess
Can anyone beat this in EPA (excluding rare successes)?
edited by Monara on 11/19/2018
Hah! Good point! If you always succeed at everything, you get infinite actions - draw the Wines!Aunt card, get lucky and refresh 10 actions, and when you’re low on cards you can use 2 actions via flash lays to refresh your cards. So “EPA” becomes meaningless because “A” is free - I guess cycle ‘airs of the forgotten quarter’ to constantly get lucky with both the ‘airs’ and the randomly getting pulsating amber. So that’s 62.5 EPA not counting the actions you use to get more free actions/cards.
But you’d still need to draw the Aunt card within 5 deck refreshes to not run out of actions. In my experience it’s less common than that.
Wild guesses don’t rely on rare successes, but the menaces would add up quickly.
If we can manipulate card draws too, how about selling your soul for 312.5 echoes on “City Vices: What Proft?”, and then getting it back in one action from “One’s Public” value 200 bundle? :-)
You see, I read this topic and what I think is “I wish I had a item that upped my luck to max so I could profit off Fidgeting Writer every time. But that would be so overpowered in money making that even though I want it it would have to either come with some insane downside, or just not exist.”