Mysteries Discussion

Fallen London
361

They basically corrupted the Fourth City’s government, which is what split the city in two. Those that didn’t agree with practices with the dream snakes sailed off to form Khan’s Heart and Khan’s Glory on the zee, which would also spit into the smaller group of Khan’s Shadow. Everyone who was fine with the Finger-Kings stayed while the city degraded from their influence until their destruction when the Fifth City (London) fell. Some citizens of the Khan still practice connections with the Kings, though they are overall reviled by the Khan for what they did to them.

[spoiler][quote=Lazaroth]Regarding the identities of different parts of Our Fair City, I have:

  • Moloch Street was Baker Street[/li][li]Elderwick was Aldwych[/li][li]Lusitania Row was Picadilly Arcade[/li][li]Blythenhale was Bethnal Green[/quote]

Yes to the first and last, no the the other two. Aldwych was made in the 20th century, destroying Wych Street, which was made long before the Fall of London and was demolished in 1901. As for Piccadilly Arcade, that was made in 1909, while Piccadilly Circus was opened in after construction in 1819. So, a more accurate statement would be that Elderwick was Wych Street and Lusitania Row was Piccadilly Circus. You’re technically correct, and I know the corrections are nitpicky as hell, but I think small details like that may potentially have an influence on whether or not Failbetter deems the answer right or wrong.[/spoiler]
With regard to Sir Joseph’s comments under the spoiler tag, it is best to be as precise as possible, though in the past Failbetter has been fairly liberal in giving credit for responses to Mysteries that are mostly correct.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/2/2018[/quote]

362

Moloch st.
(Based on clues from this ES. No spoilers for the stories, only for the clues there)

[spoiler] It has been written here that Moloch Street was Baker Street.
According to this ES, one of the workers of Moloch Street’s train station used to&quotremember what it was like to walk out those doors. Into the sunlight&quot.
[font=Arial]Baker Street was always an underground station, was it not?

Perhaps another station?
We are talking about a place in the vicinity of Hyde park and Regent’s park (according to clues at this ES, when surveying the area of Labybones Road).
Marylebone was opened at 1899, so this isn’t the answer. How about Paddington station? Or some other in the area (which is above ground+created before the fall).[/font]

[/spoiler]
edited by Gonen on 6/5/2018

363

If the station was underground, wouldn’t exiting the station into the sunlight make sense?

364

Let’s check our lists then?

Only answers, order from browser version:

Baker Street
Aldwych Street
Piccadilly
Bethnal Green
Gant, Peligin, Irrigo, Violant, Apocyan, Cosmogone, Viric
The Game itself
Copper, Ormolu, Steel, Ivory, Glass, Paper, Teeth
Wings-of-Thunder Bat, which is one of Mr Hearts’ disguises
Their flesh is wax
Manager of Bethlehem Hotel
Leopold the Delicate Duke
Calendar Council ordered his execution
June of Calendar Council
Virginia (or Feducci, not sure)
no answer
Thief-of-Faces (not sure)
Mt Nomad
They were made to kill them (or they hiss too loudly)
To change and Be (two answers, maybe have to choose one?)
London was stolen by bats

365

I believe not. &quotExiting the building&quot indicates an upperground station. And I believe this is no coincidence - as it is the only clue gained when directly investigating Moloch station.

366

Underground stations still have associated buildings aboveground, and exits through those buildings into the sunlight. I see no reason to doubt Baker Street.

Edit: If anything, emerging from the underground through the station’s exit and into the sunlight would an even more pronounced and memorable experience than just walking outdoors from an aboveground building with windows. BPotatoes also extremely succinctly sums up the bulk of the reasoning for Baker Street below. :P
edited by Barse on 6/6/2018

367

Ok.
So WHY Baker and none other?

368

[quote=Gonen]Ok.
So WHY Baker and none other?[/quote]

Sherlock Holmes lives there, and Moloch is an oven.

369

[quote=BPotatoes][quote=Gonen]Ok.
So WHY Baker and none other?[/quote]

Sherlock Holmes lives there, and Moloch is an oven.[/quote]

To call the burning of children inside the moloch devil ‘an oven’ and relate that to a baker is quite the leap, in my humble opinion. The moloch is primerly a devil and not an oven.
If Moloch st IS Baker st. (for whatever reason) I’d be quite frustrated after said worker told us he exited a building to a sunlight.

370

Another note to make about Moloch Street’s identity:

The Honey-Sipping Detective has an unavailable case called &quotThe Case of the Other Waxwork&quot, though who knows when/if it will ever become available. The first of Madame Tussauds’ wax museums, meanwhile, was started in Baker Street in 1835. Now it did move to Marlebone Street about fifty years later in 1884, but that’s still very close nearby.

371

Oh. I probably missed that - does the detective live at Moloch street?
edited by Gonen on 6/7/2018

372

[quote=Gonen]Oh. I probably missed that - does the detective live at Moloch street?
edited by Gonen on 6/7/2018[/quote]
Yep, the text on the Working with the Honey-Addled Detective storylet mentions him living in his &quotcavernous rooms on Moloch Street&quot, so it’s safe to say he’s housing there. As for Moloch being synonymous with an oven, while Moloch himself was a demon and not a furnace, his traditional method of sacrifice involved furnace idols in which children were placed inside to be burned or &quotbaked&quot. So while not exactly the same, the two concepts of Moloch and ovens are heavily connected. Match this lore of Moloch associated with burning or &quotbaking&quot children in oversized furnaces, and the original Sherlock living on Baker Street, I wouldn’t say it’s too much a stretch that the Sherlock-insert is a subtle nod to the original’s address - Baker Street.

[quote=Hotshot Blackburn]Another note to make about Moloch Street’s identity:

The Honey-Sipping Detective has an unavailable case called &quotThe Case of the Other Waxwork&quot, though who knows when/if it will ever become available. The first of Madame Tussauds’ wax museums, meanwhile, was started in Baker Street in 1835. Now it did move to Marlebone Street about fifty years later in 1884, but that’s still very close nearby.

Add that little reference to the previous Sherlock tie-in, and I believe the clues connect fairly nicely.

373

Right. The Sherlock thing persuaded me. The Moloch ‘oven’, less so (that is a furnace for sacrificing, not an oven). But I can see why someone with a certain sense of humor would insist on addressing that as a baker’s oven.
If that is the case, I am TRULY dissapointed in that misleading hint which was given on this ES (sunlight outside of a building, etc.)
Thank you for your time, explaining me the Baker answer.

374

Right. The Sherlock thing persuaded me. The Moloch ‘oven’, less so (that is a furnace for sacrificing, not an oven). But I can see why someone with a certain sense of humor would insist on addressing that as a baker’s oven.
If that is the case, I am TRULY dissapointed in that misleading hint which was given on this ES (sunlight outside of a building, etc.)
Thank you for your time, explaining me the Baker answer.

375

I understand little to nothing about the Stone Tentacle-Key, but from what I know about the Manager and his personal past, I want to narrow down our options for the Key’s placer. Major spoilers for Nemesis and Heart’s Desire ambitions, as well as general lore for the story and an all-around long winded ramble. TL;DR : My guess is the King of a Hundred Hearts.

[spoiler]When paying the Manager with the Key for advice on the Heart’s Desire ambition, he talks to it as though it were a lost lover, showing surprise at the smell of well water and mentioning how he must give them up once again, stating how he is not yet ready to bear that weight once more. Considering his past issues with love and the title of the outcome being &quotA hundred hands&quot, I presume he’s talking to the key as though it were The King of a Hundred Hearts, his past lover whose life was bought with the First City. Though we’re short on information about the key and what little info we have feels disconnected, what I could find seems to indicate the Key as having value in matters of essence and dreams. When selling off the Key to Iron Republic devils for access to a room in the Nemesis ambition, the devil states that the price for entry varies from the proof of an aunt’s demise, two ounces minimum of the occupant’s liver, a soul of V.S.A.H. quality or better (presumably high?), or the Key itself. The majority of these items seem to hold some value of human ownership or part of a person’s self, especially the mention of a high quality soul, which the King’s might plausibly fall under. Having been gifted abominable immortality and shattered in heart and soul across his Clay Men creations, any significant piece of the King’s being would mean ownership to a fraction of his whole and potentially hold special interest to an infernal creature. The only other place in which I can find any lore of significance on the Key is when experiencing a honey dream, once again during the Nemesis ambition, where sentient roses crowd around a similarly shaped Key amidst a field of lion bones. Since the King is now more spirit or mind than physical body, and he is known for creating his Clay Men from his dreams and forming the Unfinished from his nightmares, the Key in the dream may some part of him within the dream world of Parabola.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that the Key could have a double meaning as the key to his heart and the key to his city. The heart part could be a nod to his namesake, which was fragmented along with his being into bits long ago. Since my interpretation of the King’s existence is that he lives dispersed among the remnants of his city in Polythreme and across all that he has given life to, like a spiritual force or a broken god, having a key to his city might quite literally mean having the key to himself. Hence, the Key being the key to his heart and his city, and in essence the King of a Hundred Hearts.

All of this is a large stretch on my part, but with no present alternatives, my best guess as to the Key’s placer would be the King of a Hundred Hearts himself. Considering the importance of Hunter’s Keep in Sunless Sea’s story involving the Tireless Mechanic (it is said that the Writhing River of Parabola flows &quotnear&quot the Keep), there’s the possibility that the King could have placed the Key there on his journey out to zee or through the Writhing River’s side of the fence and into the real world. Whether this was by mistake or by intention, and for whatever reason this could be (do you think it could have to do with his incorporeal nature or the Clay Men’s relation to dreams?), he’s the only choice I can come up with at this time. It’s hardly solid proof, but there are enough &quotmaybes&quot and &quotwhat-ifs&quot that I’m willing to pin him as my answer if only to have something written down. Unless the upcoming ending for the Season of Adorations or July’s ES provide any last minute clues, the King of a Hundred Hearts seems like the most reliable option.[/spoiler]
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/8/2018

376

I’d be very surprised if the Hundreds placed the key there, given that he by nature can’t really leave Polythreme. I’m not sure if there’s any indication whether he visits Parabola, but he couldn’t exactly return to the real world to access the well, especially since the Parabola access point is over in the basement.

The key is enough of a mystery that–barring some major revelation–I think the solidest guess is just the Manager himself, since he’s the only character who’s explicitly had it before.
edited by Optimatum on 6/9/2018

377

[quote=Optimatum]I’d be very surprised if the Hundreds placed the key there, given that he by nature can’t really leave Polythreme. I’m not sure if there’s any indication whether he visits Parabola, but he couldn’t exactly return to the real world to access the well, especially since the Parabola access point is over in the basement.

The key is enough of a mystery that–barring some major revelation–I think the solidest guess is just the Manager himself, since he’s the only character who’s explicitly had it before.
edited by Optimatum on 6/9/2018[/quote]

Minus the fact that I’m hesitant to answer two questions with the same answer, I’d say your answer is more solid. He knew the guy intimately, and he’s the one with a more corporeal body, so it makes sense. However, when reading the result A Hundred Hands after giving the Manager the Key, he seems surprised when addressing the smell of well water. &quotYou’ve been away a long time, haven’t you? A hundred hands and a thousand eyes. And do I smell well water? No matter.&quot It sounds like he doesn’t know where the Key has been or the fact that it was sitting in a well for who knows how long. Were it not for that quote, I’d probably agree with you.

On an unrelated note, I’m loving/hating how this one question has become the equivalent of last mystery set’s &quotWhy are there no foxes in the city?&quot question.
edited by Sir Joseph Marlen on 6/10/2018

378

That’s it! There’s no foxes in the city because they’re all out at zee, hiding Stone Tentacle-Keys for the player! The Mysteries are solved at last.

379

Accepting that there is no single wholly convincing explanation for who hid the key in the well, what are the arguments against the sisters themselves? It’s on their property, they know about it, they encourage you to retrieve it and it’s very much placed in the well rather than just chucked it.

380

[quote=genesis]Accepting that there is no single wholly convincing explanation for who hid the key in the well, what are the arguments against the sisters themselves? It’s on their property, they know about it, they encourage you to retrieve it and it’s very much placed in the well rather than just chucked it.[/quote]And then there’s this sidebar snippet:

No one in London knows where this key is. Or at least, no one who knows is telling. And anyway, this doesn’t stop them talking. They say that the one man who knew where it was just vanished one night, along with his boat. They say he was probably eaten by a zee-monster. They say that pirates might have scuppered him out of spite. Some of them say he had already hidden the key before he died. One or two of them say that he sold it to a mad king in Polythreme who gave it to his youngest daughter for safekeeping before being eaten by a Stone Pig. It’s probably safe to discount those ones.