Hmm. Lots have been said here, but I think I might just write something of my own too.
I’m not a seeker. I did the first tiny bits of it, before abandoning the content quickly. Not because I thought it wasn’t worth the effort, but because I had already decided that my character isn’t allowed to die.
The thing is… I got talked into joining this game by lurker friends. They don’t participate much in the community at all, but the most talked about content was SMEN. In fact, I’d say that this is one of the most exciting content in the whole game, even for me who’s on the sidelines.
It is, therefore, my opinion that removing or defanging this content seriously damages the draw of the game.
On the other hand: I would be all in favour of making it actually fully supported, if rarely updated, content. Especially since you seemed to have so much fun punishing your masochistic player base.
And finally, in regards to Dolans request:
It was perfectly reasonable. Unless someone is cheating their way into Fate, you’re doing the game a disservice by treating it any differently compared to Nex. At least in regards to issues of refunds.
Heck, if a bug in the game made me loose an Overgoat, I’d darn well ask to have it given back to me, and that one would have had even less “value” than the Fate. (Actually, in this case it’d have even more value to me personally. I wouldn’t bat an eyelid at loosing 10-20 Nex. But loosing my Overgoat to a bug? Oh heck no! If I didn’t get it back, I’d quit the game so quickly you’d hardly see the tentacled end of my rubbery companion! xD)
[quote=Swinter]
And finally, in regards to Dolans request:
It was perfectly reasonable. Unless someone is cheating their way into Fate, you’re doing the game a disservice by treating it any differently compared to Nex. At least in regards to issues of refunds.companion! [/quote]
Not wanting to guess the Tiger’s thoughts - but it appears they’re two separate databases - bought stuff/vs gifted or otherwise free stuff, and he wasn’t suggesting no refunds, just that on looking at the database for Nex he couldn’t see any that had been spent. I suspect he’d see the spending by the gifter, not the giftee, on the main one. I got the impression he was double checking - perhaps in case Dolan used another character or whatever (my mind reading powers are at full stretch). When it was clarified, the refund was made.
Edit: Oh. People HAVE cheated their way to fate before, and done some arsey things with it (like buy Sunless Sea with free fate from a multitude of alts answering the urchin cards and so on). So that may also have been a reason Fate wasn’t checked. edited by babelfishwars on 12/10/2013
Can we please just let Alexis do what he’s planning to do? We don’t even know what these changes are going to be! It seems a bit silly to me to post so much negativity when we don’t even know what the “damage” is going to be.
What I’m most worried about is that parts of the story are going to be excised. To me, that’s a purely horrifying idea and I couldn’t stand it. Having the danger mitigated - I’m not fond of the idea, but I could live with it, whereas having SMEN overhauled and changed into something else terrifies me. I really don’t like the idea of any existing content being retconned, and if it could be clarified that this isn’t going to be the case, I’d rest much easier.
I agree with the general observation that when SMEN becomes social, it incites panic; when players are pitted against each other, everyone gets frenzied over being first, lest some resource (people to betray, silver prize tokens, the calling card) run out. This isn’t helped by the quest’s underlying ‘there can only be one’ that’s been more and more emphasized as of late. Because the players have no assurance that that content will ever be made easier to get, or renewed, period, they start to view these events as the inevitable bottleneck of ‘not everyone will be able to complete this step’. Which leads to tensions and tempers and general nastiness.
The calling card was possibly the worst of them because it introduced a new candle, there was only one, and rumors started spreading that it was time-limited. This caused people to get angry at a.) Alexander Feld for trying to get things on the island, which frankly anyone would have done in his position, b.) the quest, and c.) each other, as potential competition and jostling for the front of the line. So when the duplication glitch appeared, everyone leapt for it with all the panic they’d worked themselves up into. I’m unsurprised it all blew up like this. Legal Threat Guy was just the mayonaisse on the burnt cake.
If anything needs to be changed about SMEN at all - and I personally don’t believe it does, but apparently not everyone shares this opinion - it seems to me like the biggest problem is the looming threat of ‘you’re not going to be able to complete this because somebody else is going to beat you to it’. Because when that mixes with player-to-player actions and requirements, it brings out the worst in everyone.
Eh. You’ve probably thought about all of this already. I’m going to trust you, Alexis, but the fact that Mr Eaten’s being ‘defanged’ at all really shook me, and I just feel a lot better for having voiced my concerns. edited by Laluzi on 12/10/2013
Honestly?
No, we can’t. Ever since the internet was created there’s been a proud tradition of second guessing content creators intentions. Why would we be the ones to stop?
It kinda comes with the territory of having a vested interest in the game. For some, because we’ve spent money on buying Nex, and for others because they’ve spent a lot of time on it.
In the end, we’re all aware that the Tiger will decide. But until then, we will always try to sway the decision to the position we think are the most favourable to us. As long as it’s done with calm discussion, I see nothing wrong with it, even when just based on conjecture.
Edit: Oh and Lazuli is correct. Making the Mr. Eaten content social is asking for trouble. You’re pitting your already most loyal and fervent customers against each other. That’s going to turn ugly really quickly. edited by Swinter on 12/10/2013
[quote=Swinter]
You’re pitting your already most loyal and fervent customers against each other. That’s going to turn ugly really quickly. edited by Swinter on 12/10/2013[/quote]
Oh, I don’t know. Everything I do is gorgeous. Even the betrayals. smirk
I understand the impulse to curtail the storyline based on the (ridiculous) complaints leveled at the game. However, I now feel like the last few weeks of my time in game have been kind of for nothing. I have been grinding notoriety, a part of the game I HATE because you’re constantly working against the clock of Time, to get it up to higher levels. And after all that work, I’m at 6 notability, almost ready to convert MW to my seventh, and what I was working for is gone. The problem I have is that I can’t convert the Notability to anything else–there’s nothing to spend it on–and both it and my Making Waves are going to just vanish into the aether. That sucks, and I’m wrestling with some pretty negative emotions right now.
I appreciate all the hard work that’s been put into all aspects of this game, particularly Mr Eaten’s name, but this event has left a real sour taste in my mouth. I’ve been spending the first week of the action-saturated December essentially just burning up those actions (and double, since I became an Exceptional Friend!) on a wild goose chase. Wow.
[color=#009900]Ladies, gentlemen, others. I went off to do some work and came back to find that my ‘Let me demonstrate publicly that I’m not a crook’ thread has become an ‘explain to Alexis exactly what he needs to do to fix SMEN’ thread. As ever, I sincerely (<–no sarcasm!) appreciate the implied enthusiasm, but t[/color][color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]o repeat what I said in the other thread:[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)] [/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]"I’m going to take a week or so to think this over. At the moment the most likely responses are that I’ll end the storyline prematurely and as cleanly as possible, providing what closure I can, freeze existing content and leave it in indefinite hiatus, or look at ways to domesticate it into mainstream, [fully supported] content without changing the underlying fiction. I am going to think about other solutions."[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]In the meantime, Mr Eaten is a personal project in hiatus, so I can, with some relief, step away from the conversation.[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]
[/color]
[color=rgb(0, 153, 0)]People seem to be having fun in here, so I’ll change the title and leave y’all to it. Someone hit the report link if anyone gets homophobic. Anyone who’s still looking for a refund, mail purchases@failbettergames.com .[/color]
All right. Thanks for giving us a place to run around in circles in instead of locking the thread for derailing its original purpose.
I’m just panicking. I think a lot of us are. Hence the ‘here’s what I think could be changed’, in hopes that you won’t change anything else, or just people going ‘aaaaahhhhh noo don’t close it nooo what can we do to appease you’. Bottom line, I like Seeking Mr Eaten’s Name, a lot. More than any other content on this site. I don’t want to see it go.
I guess, on the other hand, that that’s pretentious of me? You’re the one getting all the complaints, after all. You know what people are complaining about and I don’t. I guess I’m just going to have to go a week without screaming out windows and eating my pets and generally acting like a lunatic. Alas! I’d just gotten to that point, and I was having such fun with it.
Flyte pointed out something that I’d really been neglecting, though, and I apologize. It has to hurt, having your own story get pushed around like this so much. It’s kind of easy to forget that this sucks more for you than it does for any of us.
So, I adore Eaten content. My current character does not play it after narrowly extracting herself from becoming the Number. It’s part of Her Story, and the story of lots of people who play in the online RP I’m involved in. It’s one of the few menaces that remains just that: a menace. I’ve been recently contemplating getting an alt that plays SMEN because I love the content so much, and too many people no longer play it in our group - it’s part of their history, but not of their present. But the scenes we’ve had! The horrid interactions! The battling with propriety vs sanity vs survival vs obsession. SMEN has contributed so much to the atmosphere of Fallen London. You die, you come back. You go mad, you get better. You are too scandalous, you wait it out. Even Hell is something less threatening.
But SMEN is always out there, always watching. It’s a threat that cannot be mitigated or gotten use to. It doesn’t become part of the grey of London existence - it is vivid splash of red at every turn. It’s a part of you, insidiously subtle in making you wonder if you are making your own choices, or something is pushing you. You must go further to retreat. To some degree, many of the characters wonder if SMEN is what would save them all in the end…are they being negligent in not sacrificing themselves? Or are they being wise? How can you know?
…all of that wandering thought is to say, I really hope SMEN stays and I cannot wait to see where it goes. It’s fantastically written, layered with symbolism and depth that I rarely find in anywhere, let alone a game. SMEN makes you FEEL the desperation and uncertainty and madness. That’s brilliance, right there.[li] edited by OScarletO on 12/10/2013
I’ve had difficulty gathering my thoughts because the thought of SMEN disappearing makes my brain seize up and then run around in panicked circles. (I’m also quite irritated because I was intending to have my main account temporarily take up Seeking again for story purposes as soon as I could swing a betrayal, and my seeking alt/secondary character was Seeking but took what was supposed to be a brief break from it – using the advent calendar’s code to remove Free of the Name – so I could get double betrayed and help out my seeker friends. But the freeze came in before I could get betrayed on either account, so now I’m locked out indefinitely.)
I’ve barely even played the content, I just think the idea of it is a unique and shining gem of sadistic brilliance, and I really enjoy the lore knotted around and through it. I also find the ridiculously punishing game mechanics hilarious. (My sense of humour is peculiar and a bit mean, yes.) My main character is the Seeking equivalent of a recovering alcoholic, or something of the kind; I picture the search for the Name as having addictive properties above and beyond a normal obsession, but in addition to that, it’s the one secret that was truly too dangerous to pursue, the one time they were forced to admit that hunting down this mystery would destroy them, which is maddening for a Watchful-centric character who sees the ‘forbidden’ in ‘forbidden knowledge’ as somewhere between a challenge and a personal insult. So they’re tormented with intermittent thoughts of returning to the Search, thoughts which are not entirely their own; the same forces that carry the word NORTH to the rest of the Fifth City whisper in my character’s ear like everyone else’s, bolstered by familiarity, and my PC is torn between succumbing to temptation and the vow they swore to never again go down that road.
And then there’s my Seeking alt, who’s just doomed. That was one of the first things I knew about them, since I created that secondary account for the purpose of playing through things my main character would never do, and ‘actually trying to finish SMEN’ was chief among them. (Although it’s also nice to just have a second playthrough, since I’ve hit most of the content boundaries on my main.)
Another thing I was hoping to figure out. I went to the forums a few hours after the panic, legal threat, and lock down so I played catch up to get the situation figured out. I’m not trying to say Alexis is wrong with his ideas for what to do from here, but I don’t understand why the options are end it prematurely, freeze it, or try to integrate it (which seems like it’d be difficult). I mean, the panic of the Isle is over, the bugs have been found and can be fixed up, and the legal threat has been found to be fake. Why can’t we just have a bit of a break to cool off, then continue like nothing ever happened? Why do things need to drastically change?
It wasn’t just the legal threat, though. Many players expressed grievances over the Winking Isle content, especially regarding NiteBrite’s breakdown. I think Failbetter is worried that a similar episode might happen again if they take things too far, and, as Mr Kennedy has already stated, they don’t want to spend company hours dealing with content written in their spare time.[li] edited by Little The on 12/10/2013
This is a strangely surreal turn of events (I hadn’t been aware of most of it), but I’ll be following the news as close as I can. I’d always been intrigued by SMEN, and have come close a couple times to embarking on the quest. What can I say? THIS BRINGS NOTHING BUT SUFFERING is a tempting bit of warning, and everyone raves about the quality of the content. (I like the idea of those two elements colluding.)
I can definitely understand if measures need to be taken to ease down from the original plan, though. If anything, I hope we’ll eventually get some game elements that, like the Cave of the Nadir (which I’m rather enjoying), embrace that sense of punishment and peril. :)[li] edited by Playersideblog on 12/10/2013
Wait, is there some reason the St. Beau’s Candle card isn’t working? (By which I mean “You need Impossible! 1”…which is probably deliberate rather than a bug)