In the emerald update the biggest change was the implementation of map shuffling. The good thing this update does is add to the replay-ability of the game. Knowing where everything is allows for the best route possible so this is really the beginning of Sunless Sea taking a step in the direction of a rogue-like game where it is somewhat difficult, but fair. However, what I also see from this that this update could affect every game by punishing you for exploring. You could potentially rack up a bunch of terror trying to find new islands, making exploration generally more expensive as you look for proper routes using light buoys. Whether or not you survive is largely based on where the islands you can make money are at (Ex: Godfall and Salt Lions).
If a game punishes you for exploring than in the early game it would be more beneficial to find the most efficient route as soon as possible that you can find close to Fallen London. With a limited amount of echoes at the start and no idea which direction to go in I’ll admit this can add to the eerie hopeless atmosphere that Sunless Sea has. With this system, an experienced player could easily lose and have to start all over because they had no idea where to go first. And that coupled with the few resources you have at the start only makes it even more risky to head out into the unknown. With enough echoes, you wouldn’t have much to worried about. However, this would require quite a bit of grinding (Venderbight runs, etc) to explore more of the map(Or other areas which you have no idea where they are at). Ultimately the risk for exploring new areas is always high, with potentially terrible rewards to make up the difference in costs.
I personally think that the positives outweigh the negatives because it would add to the story through its immersive atmosphere, which I think should be this games biggest strength anyway.[li]
I only got this game about 2-3 days before the update, so I had literally just started to memorise the map and started to feel disappointed it was small and fixed. Now it seems huge, dangerous and intimidating. I found shifting quarry for the Salt Lions makes mad bank if you’re lucky enough to have it close.
I’ve spent way too many hours playing since the update, the new places are great, even the ones that aren’t finished, they’re just getting excited because the scale of this game just took a huge leap. Once there are more win conditions etc, I can see myself coming back to this game over and over again.
I think the rewards should be assigned by distance/importance (Khan isn’t always very far but it’s an important checkpoint. You could base a place port reports, cargo etc based on how far they are from London/area they spawn in.
That said, I can see from the forums that they’re tweaking EVERYTHING all of the time.
I like how it works now, the negatives you point out are not wrong but we can safely assume that new content will solve some of those problems (for example the way you earn money early game).
One thing I don’t understand, are the “quest logs” from the journal up to date with the new patch? I mean I got as first mission from the admiral to get a strategic report from the Iron Misery Co. and it said “somewhere in the vicinity of home waters”, it was actually really far off… now I’m worried that when it says “somewhere around north east” etc it may actually be just about anywhere
[li]Admiral X just sent me on a mission to Poly.
[li]said it was "somewhere far east of London"…
[li]really? as in, Antarctica is east of New York? or how New York is "west" of LA?
[li]ha-ha funny when you have a complete map.
[li]potential life-ender if you have a blank, shuffled map and take their word to heart.
[li]
[li]unless, of course, you start spamming save-scumming explorations to all available points.
[li]but that kinda defeats the point of the game and flat-out nullifies any chance of success in a permadeath theater.
[li]
Yes, I think they should change the description attached to the indications given by the admiralty or the smuggler for a mission… I think they are still stuck to the fixed map.
Its annoying but still an obvious bug that will very likely be fixed in the next patch. As deadcrystal pointed out the zee-bat works alot better now so thats a nice work around at least.
[li][/li][li] edited by Atom Stratomsk on 8/2/2014
I don’t think it really punishes anyone for exploring. All it does is prevent people from being able to rely on information they received three characters back.
if they say ‘go east’ and it’s really ‘go south’ you may find this port or that, but you burn a ton of fuel, get jacked on terror, etc.
that gets pricey at 10 bucks a point, and even more expensive if there’s no strategic info or smuggled souls to bring back.
i don’t mind a little inaccuracy, a little vagueness in the details, but when margins for survival are this tight, you can’t be dropping lines in the Atlantic when they want you fishing in the Pacific.
I haven’t killed dear old Sebastian off just yet, so I can’t really say much about how badly the map gets shuffled. Regardless, bad directions for the admiral or the smugglers cargo can very easily lead to the death of your Captain. Therefore it should be vital that these directions become more accurate.
Its annoying but still an obvious bug that will very likely be fixed in the next patch. As deadcrystal pointed out the zee-bat works alot better now so thats a nice work around at least.
[li][/li][li] edited by Atom Stratomsk on 8/2/2014[/quote][/li][li]
[/li][li]I think it’s a bit more serious than that, especially for new players. Especially if you are not an expert in the game, the admiral or the smuggler are easily the first source of income (and the indications push you to explore the Zee). I remember at the beginning I relied a lot on those indications. If now they prove to be wrong it could really create a lot of problems.[/li][li]
[/li][li]And I still think they should try to find a way to limit the number of still-not-done tiles in the shuffling of the map. Of course the problem will solve itself when the game is finished, but we are still months away…
[/li]
I think they did, since Polythreme used to be just southeast of London.
Also worth noting with the map shuffling the Iron Republic, Whither, and Venderbight are all static and the northern edge of the map always includes Void’s Approach somewhere. (and I think Mount Palmerston)
Plus since it’s large tiles being rearranged if you’re familiar with what’s in what tiles you definitely can take advantage of an existing knowledge base for the game to make things easier. edited by WormApotheote on 8/4/2014
I’m really not sure about the size of the tiles, some groups of places seem to be as close to each other as before the map shuffling but others are not.
I still haven’t found Mount Palmerstone even though I have gone a fair way along the northern edge of the map. I’ve got Polythreme quite a way to the North East, discovered while looking for Palmerstone:) Port Cecil and Gaider’s Mourn, among others, are still undiscovered as well. edited by reveurciel on 8/4/2014
[quote=lady ciel ]I’m really not sure about the size of the tiles, some groups of places seem to be as close to each other as before the map shuffling but others are not.
I still haven’t found Mount Palmerstone even though I have gone a fair way along the northern edge of the map. I’ve got Polythreme quite a way to the North East, discovered while looking for Palmerstone:) Port Cecil and Gaider’s Mourn, among others, are still undiscovered as well. edited by reveurciel on 8/4/2014[/quote]
Well my latest map had it in the sixth row over on the map, which is extremely far east. (Also Polythreme and the Principles of Coral were found pretty far east, past the Khanate, so they can definitely be in remote locations.)
In my current map, I can’t find Gaider’s Mourn, which it says is “close to home waters.” I have quite thoroughly explored everything close to home waters, and I found the Sea of Autumns. I have still not found Gaider’s Mourn.
I finally found Gaider’s Mourn, still no Principles of Coral, Uttershroom or Mount Palmerstone but even with the frustration of trying to find the places I think I like it. I guess I’ll slowly work my way east along the north of the map to find Mount Palmerstone. I was in no hurry to start the Blind Bruiser’s story any way.
[quote=lady ciel ]I’m really not sure about the size of the tiles, some groups of places seem to be as close to each other as before the map shuffling but others are not.
I still haven’t found Mount Palmerstone even though I have gone a fair way along the northern edge of the map. I’ve got Polythreme quite a way to the North East, discovered while looking for Palmerstone:) Port Cecil and Gaider’s Mourn, among others, are still undiscovered as well. edited by reveurciel on 8/4/2014[/quote]
I think you can get an idea of the dimension of the tiles by looking at the "progress" map of the Sunless Sea page. I think there are big chunks made up by several (four?) sectors (for example the Demeaux Island sector contains the Phosgene Bleaks, Moody’s Light, Bonny Reef and the Demeaux Island; the Salt Lions contain, in addition to the lions, other parts not yet built) and perhaps the content of each chunk can be arranged differently when the new map is generated.
And yes, the coastline is static.
I still am not convinced that they have changed the description of the missions of the admiralty and the Bruiser.
[quote=Master Polarimini][quote=lady ciel ]I’m really not sure about the size of the tiles, some groups of places seem to be as close to each other as before the map shuffling but others are not.
I still haven’t found Mount Palmerstone even though I have gone a fair way along the northern edge of the map. I’ve got Polythreme quite a way to the North East, discovered while looking for Palmerstone:) Port Cecil and Gaider’s Mourn, among others, are still undiscovered as well. edited by reveurciel on 8/4/2014[/quote]
I think you can get an idea of the dimension of the tiles by looking at the "progress" map of the Sunless Sea page. I think there are big chunks made up by several (four?) sectors (for example the Demeaux Island sector contains the Phosgene Bleaks, Moody’s Light, Bonny Reef and the Demeaux Island; the Salt Lions contain, in addition to the lions, other parts not yet built) and perhaps the content of each chunk can be arranged differently when the new map is generated.
And yes, the coastline is static.
I still am not convinced that they have changed the description of the missions of the admiralty and the Bruiser.[/quote]
I think they’ve changed it, but I don’t think it works correctly. Gaider’s Mourn could never have been described as "close to home waters" before the update, but I also haven’t managed to find it yet. It isn’t an appropriate description before or after.