Let Zubmarine owners buy a Pleasure Yacht too.

Very few choices in the game feel as starkly, annoyingly divided as this one – between what’s &quotoptimal&quot for numerous elements of top-level gameplay (pleasure yacht) and what’s just plain awesome (zubmarine). In the past you’ve explicitly stated that you don’t want the Zub to be +2 Bizarre because Bizarre and Dreaded are supposed to be harder to come by than Respectable… well, in that case, let us buy a Yacht too so this can be a fun decision instead of a needlessly painful one.

(Though FWIW, I think even if we take it as understood that Bizarre is supposed to be harder to attain than Respectable, the fact that a Zub takes so much longer to get than a Yacht could still justify +2 Bizarre.)
edited by Televangelist on 8/27/2017

The yacht isn’t actually strictly optimal - sure, it has one more BDR, but the zub is better at zee travel. (Unfortunately, the only clearly optimal ship is The Heart.)

I dunno about you but I’ll take 1 BDR over better zee travel any day. Not everyone cares about optimizing money but everyone does care about minimizing tedium; zee voyages are rarely bothersome and are just mild action sinks, whereas notability grinding is a monumental and painful task for which any respite is welcome.

As for the Zub… on one hand, sometimes different things are different. On the other hand, I know if my RP favored the Zub I’d probably still pick the Yacht and feel bummed about it. No one likes it when the game makes them feel bummed. So it’d be nice if it got another point of Bizarre, though not wholly unexpected if nothing changes.

I would also be fine (happier really)if you could do an additional mini-storylet that replaces the zub with an improved BRD/stat version. Same to for the yacht (minus the BDR boost)

I’m a zub owner and I’m against this.

I have no interest in giving up my Zub but every time I interact with notability I’m tempted to switch to a yacht and marry a rubbery man to get those last 4 points of BDR. I wish I didn’t have to chose between optimal BDR and the few RP things I’ve stuck with but I don’t expect that to change any time soon.

You might as well say that by choosing a spouse we need to choose between either optimal BDR (Rubbery Consort) or a bonus to a main stat (all others). So should FBG let people also marry the Rubbery in addition to their other spouse? (I would hope it’s obvious the answer is &quotno&quot).

It’s all subjective, anyway. I, for one, have always seen the Yacht as more &quotplain awesome&quot (as you put it) than the zub. It also makes for more lucrative zee voyages. (and for speed, the zee- clipper is also great).

What’s so bad with making a choice out of several options? It’s not as if you can’t switch if you so choose…

Isn’t it explicitly stated that the Masters of the Bazaar only allow you to have one ship?


Although as far I have seen (NOTE that I have only been able to play the free content side of Echo Bazaar) that has never been built upon nor implemented into the story in any way. It seems more like something that was added last second to justify the mechanical decision rather than part of the world building itself. If the really is the case, I think most of us are ready to have a second ship to rely on (Besides, Its not like the Masters have not been known to change their minds either.)

On the topic of spouses; although i am firm believer of classical marriage in London (fallen or not), it does seem a bit odd that one would be limited to only a single partner in the neath, especially considering the other odd things that tend to happen in this sunless realm. Besides, I am sure that the Masters could get their hands on quite a few more interesting love stories should such a restriction be repealed.
edited by Koenig on 8/27/2017

Cool, then let me spend some of my Connected: The Masters to have an exception made.

Yes, having optimal BDR tied to something that feels as personal as your character’s specific choice of spouse is also an extremely poor design decision. And kinda inexplicable that the game handles it so poorly, considering one of the major themes of the game is about passion and affairs of the heart.

If it’s about compelling people to spend the 100 fate, offer a way to make the other spouses +3 BDR that also costs 100 fate.

Bottom line – in a game so heavily focused on flavor and role and story, don’t make players screw themselves out of a decent high-level play experience (+3 BDR is absolutely massive in the endgame) to choose something as personal as a spouse or vehicle in a way that actually fits with the player’s vision.

Once a player reaches a Notability level which they’re happy with, BDR loses nearly all of its value. My swift zee-clipper will never stop easing my zee voyages, even long after I’ve attained Shattering Force and regained a few points of Notability for surprise packages via an unsigned message.

With Paramount Presence recently being released and Hallowmas on the horizon, notability is something I know I’ll soon be worrying about a lot.

I am a supporter of polyamory (and its representation in games) in principle, but I fear the only way for this to be an actual, personal choice would be by decoupling spouses from any sort of stat bonus - otherwise its just an incentive for people to collect spouses, nt an actual RP/lifestyle-decision. I would however support that decoupling to happen, its not like spouses are particularly relevant to gameplay (3 BDR or a tiny statbonus at best), and FL is otherwise pretty friendly about that sort of thing - I mean, what is the rubbery consort if not fetish-friendly? ;)

On the actual topic, yeah, having multiple boats would be nice (perhaps for a hefty bribe?). The one-boat-per-person rule seems silly from a narrative point of view (well, see, the yacht is actually my spouses’, I’m just taking it out for a spin) and I always assumed it was more as a nod to Sunless Sea, where you aren’t able to have more than one ship because, well, the game is entirely designed around controlling just that one. Though I would like to have an eschatologue-fleet and terrorize the Zee as a pirate king… aww.

As soon as you can have multiples, then high-level players just collect all of them and it also stops being an RP choice. I mean, I wouldn’t mind that because 99% of late-game play is just collecting things for the sake of collecting them. But I just don’t think it helps the RP to have more. If I could have multiple ships or multiple spouses, I’d also collect them all.

I’m pretty sure the one-ship rule predates sunless sea.

FL is great at including gay relationships, though unfortunately AFAIK everything has been monogamous. Maybe Clathermont and his trio? Though that strikes me more as infidelity.

At the very least we can still go out on dates with other people when being married. This can be interpreted as either a form of polyamory or infidelity, either of which is an appropriate option for the game. A bit of betrayal spices up the love stories, I imagine.

It would absolutely be in-character for my character to have a dozen or so spouses. :) Though I am a collector of stuff too.
edited by Kaijyuu on 8/28/2017

Polygamy? In a Christian city? (Well, Christian-ish.) What is this city coming to? The Masters have clearly gone mad in their pursuit of love stories.
…Jokes aside, I think spouses are more suited to being one at a time. Or have some conflict card that arises when you have multiple spouses wherein you have a lot of explaining to do. (And probably lose one of your spouses.)
As for ships, however, I’m not against the idea of multiple ships, but I feel like there’d have to be some caveat to it with drydock or something. IE you can pay for the shiny Yacht for your mantlepiece, just so you can say you have it, or for BDR, or what have you, while you continue to zail in your Tramp Steamer. …or Zub, or Clipper, if that’s what you so prefer. Ultimately, the ships are more or less an item like any other, and nobody’s asking you to choose between having a Journal of Metaphysical Conjecture, a Posy of the Neath’s Finest Flowers, or a copy of… whatever Shadowy book you have. (Ships aren’t going to get jealous of each other sitting in drydock. Well, except in a Polythremic drydock.)

Definitely. By several years.

That’s pretty subjective. It might seem like a poor design decision to you, but obviously it is the desired design in the eyes of FBG.

The game is about choices and consequences. These are often (by design) asymmetrical. As others have pointed out, if you can have everything, then there’s no longer any real choice, just a collection.

Another example: you can only be a member of one Club, and they boost different stats. That extra point of Persuasive/Shadowy can be critical when trying to max Renown

Also: depending on your end choice in The Gift, you unlock a new card which gives you a Favour with either the Docks or Society.

There are plenty of such examples. Choices have (asymmetrical) consequences.

edited by dov on 8/28/2017

It’s interesting you should mention that! My first wife in FL, before she vanished from the game, dealt with the issue of having two proposals at once. All three of us were curious if the game would allow a double marriage, but we were told by the devs that it was merely a bug. I can see that being a conflict for players who want that in-game relationship or follow that lifestyle in real life, but I get why it’s built that way since our situation was a more rare one. If multiple spouses were allowed, some players would most likely treat it as a collection game rather than the rp choice it’s meant to be. All in all, I don’t see that mechanic changing any time soon. I still think Failbetter and their games form an inclusive community with all their members’ interests in mind, it’s just hard for the concept to be easily paired with the mechanics of the game and the idea they’re going for with it. Oh well, best choose your spouse carefully, then!