Knowledge is Power - Questions on Fallen London

1stheretic · August 22, 2018, 12:09am

I’ve not played Fallen London, Cultist Simulator, Sunless Sea, nor Sunless Skies. Hence, my familiarity with them is relegated to some limited reading I’ve done into these games. Although I tend to do a lot of research, I’ve purposely not dug too deep as I did not want to reveal much of the game as a journey vs an end result, but I am unable to discern whether or not certain aspects of game play are possible.

Allow me to attempt to show where I am coming from & the &quottie-in&quot to my questions.

I am an avid fan of all things WH40K, but more specifically the CSM/Chaos side of that genre. I play games of that type & have read many Black Library titles covering the CSM legions so logically I favor games (PC & Board) that fit the stereotypical mold for this, but lately been searching for something on the more…surreptitious side…like building a cult. Less overt, more covert.

From a CSM point of view it could be heavily generalized as:

Alpha Legion - Infiltration & Covert Operations[/li][li]Night Lords - Infiltration & Psychological Warfare[/li][li]Thousand Sons - Nine Cults of Nine Sects, Knowledge is Power[/li][li]Word Bearers - Extreme religious fervor & Daemonancy[/li][li]All heavily deal in cultist activity & have significantly different views on the uses & purpose of cultists always to the detriment of said cultists (which is perfectly ok).

So the &quottie-in&quot would be I am looking for something which has elements of the above, but I am not sure which game would be a better ‘match’ for me.

Cultist Simulator looks intriguing, but I keep finding people make references to Fallen London.

I wanted to ask some questions, but without spoilers being given:

#1 Cults? Can I create, form, join, or run a cult within the game mechanics?
Note: I am not referring to a player &quotguild&quot, but an in game mechanic with some type of NPC/Faction, for instance.

#2 Any territories or domains able to control?

#3 Demons?

#4 Any combat?

#5 Is there perma-death?
Note: I am fine if there is…just wanted to know.

#6 Are there in-game factions that can be joined & ranks to climb?

#7 If not, would one of the other games listed at top (or other games within the Story Nexus Worlds) be a closer match?

edited by 1stHeretic on 8/26/2018
[color=white]Second Set of Questions:[/color]

I think I died.

I racked up many wounds going after Jack-of-Smiles, then was playing chess with the Boatman for a VERY long time it seemed. If that was death, it appeared that my main &quotcost&quot was in Actions to remedy the situation. I also noticed &quotApproaching the Gates of the Garden&quot & &quotBoatmans Opponent&quot kept increasing while playing chess.

#8 Was that death? Did I die?

#9 Other than a &quotcost&quot in Action points, is there something else I am not aware of that is a &quotCost&quot that I’ve overlooked?

#10 What is the best use for &quotMy Plans&quot & &quotActive Plans&quot TAB & is there a ‘limit’ to the # of things I can track?

#11 Some items have &quotyou’re in a Storylet at the moment - finish it before using this item&quot.
How can I tell which Storylet that relates?

#12 &quotClick on this item in your inventory to use it&quot I’ve tried left & right clicking; what am I doing wrong?

#13 I received a Gift from player, how can I send a message of thanks or communicate back with other people in game?

Speaking of gifts, I disposed of a [color=white]Whisper-Locked Sea Chest[/color]: Sold it to a Blind Bruiser because it said I could give it to one of my Sunless Sea captains. Initially I didn’t think I would play Sunless Sea, so I took the option to sell it. Well, I regret that decision. I am thoroughly enjoying Cult Simulator & Fallen London & have subsequently watched a video on Sunless Sea…which I am now 99% sure I will buy next time it is on sale. The Sunless Sea map looked awesome. I saw Watchman’s Hill (where I am at now in FL), the wolf docks, & many other places.

#14 Can I get more of those [color=white]Whisper-Locked Sea Chest[/color] while in Fallen London in order to give to my SS captain later?

#15 Does the &quotin-game-world&quot of Fallen London cover the same areas as Sunless Sea?

#16 Factions: I’m encountering different Factions and for some I can’t tell if I want to help them or not. For instance, I am perfectly fine helping Crime vs Constable (seems fairly straight forward rivalry). However, there is a guy who is giving me stuff and he was called an anarchist or something? Raising my Revolution? How can I get more info on who is against who, but without spoiling things because I don’t want to build up lots of faction with the revolution guys when I might want to be on the other side?

#17 I took the following actions in game & one sentence stood out (I highlighted it). Does that mean I can go back to the surface? I thought we were stuck in Fallen London underground region? Yes/No?

[quote=Hardly an effort]
Trails are followed, clues are analysed and witnesses are questioned. You track your client’s brother to a honey den in Veilgarden within hours of taking the case. You leave your client upbraiding her feckless sibling. [color=Yellow]It seems likely that the pair will stay in the Neath[/color]. That must be the last of your surface clients.[/quote]

Thanks,
1stHeretic
edited by 1stHeretic on 8/26/2018

changelingchilde · August 22, 2018, 1:22am

Well, in Fallen London you can sell your soul . . . you can also become the worshipper of a terrible eldritch entity.

psgarak · August 22, 2018, 1:43am

First, the relationship between Cultist Simulator and Fallen London: Both are the brainchild of Alexis Kennedy. Alexis founded Failbetter Games (FBG) in order to make Fallen London. FBG actively maintains Fallen London and its two spin-offs, Sunless Sea and Sunless Skies. Alexis parted amicably in 2016 to work on wholly original IP, which ended up being Cultist Simulator (mixed in with some freelance writing for major studios).

Based on your description of what you’re looking for, Cultist Simulator checks more boxes than Fallen London. CS hits points 1, 3, 4, and 5, while Fallen London only checks boxes 4 and 6. Both games have the elements that you correspond to the various Chaos Legions, although in CS they’re more closely aligned with in-game powers whereas in Fallen London those actions don’t have as much of a structure or framework they fit into.

Both games also have the 40k-style elements of the world that we know is subordinate to unknown, uncaring gods who are alien to us but nonetheless reflect in some why aspects of the human experience. That is a much more direct facet of the game in Cultist Simulator, while in Fallen London it’s deep lore than you can eventually chip a few tiny pieces off of, but it’s not part of your day-to-day unless you actively devote yourself to it.

These are both fundamentally text-heavy games. You mentioned reading a bunch of books so that’s probably OK with you, but fair warning that FL & CS are not mechanically involved games and the writing is the reason to play them (Sunless Skies/Sunless Sea have more game to them). You’ve probably read reviews that mention this–stripped of its lore, CS is just managing timers. If you like board games, this is probably OK (Cultist Simulator plays like a real-time solitaire board game more than any traditional genre of PC game).

Fallen London is free so you can sample the goods with a commitment of only your time. The quest system for Sunless Sea/Sunless Skies is actually StoryNexus, but you will spend more time zailing your boat than interacting with text. CS has some lore similarity and possibly some lore tie-ins, but is not mechanically similar.

suinicide · August 22, 2018, 1:43am

No cults, but there are a variety of factions you can work with.
No.
A common sight really.
Yes, but it is a text based game, so temper any expectations.
Not unless you go past a hundred or so &quotThis will permanently kill you&quot warnings in a certain terrible quest.
see 1
There are not many other active games on Storynexus. Perhaps cyberpunkdreams? I am not too familiar with it I’m afraid.

ladysaphobyron · August 22, 2018, 1:45am

Insofar as Fallen London goes …

Although there are a few groups that probably qualify as cults, there are fewer still that you can join. Of those you can join, the actions you can take within them are rather limited and are but a tiny fraction of the what the game makes available.
Territories or domains to control? Not really.
Demons? There are Devils … but they are almost certainly very different from what you think they are.
Any combat? Some.
Is there perma-death? There is one way … but you have to do it yourself; nobody can do it for you or to you.
There are certainly factions to join and ranks to climb within them, although doing so is much more a sub-plot than a major plot.

The game play of Fallen London might be much more structured than what you have in mind … Fallen London is similar to an extremely complex and evolving choose-your-own-adventure book; it is not a free-form roleplaying game (although groups of folks, independent of Failbetter, do form RPG groups based on Fallen London) or action-driven/building-things video game.

Hope this helps!

dudebropyro · August 22, 2018, 9:50am

I feel like the framing of Fallen London is important to mention here: you are a citizen of a (mostly functional) city, going about your day-to-day life. You embark on adventures, but at first they are more along the lines of pickpocketing in an alley or getting published as a small time poet; later on, you can personally meet with the Masters, get involved in grand plots, or travel to exotic and forbidden places, but they are mostly one-time stories and not something you can dedicate all your time to - at least the ones with consequences are. You can visit a talking sea to walk on a living island and get chased by sentient colonies of clothes as many times as you want, but it’s just that - a visit to an exotic island, with no particular impacts on the wider world; you can just get some neat items out of it.
There are a select few stories that do involve grand things like joining cults, but they’re rare and usually, once you’ve played through them, that’s about it. Most of your time will be spent going about your character’s day to day life, which especially by the endgame can get pretty grindy.

Perhaps the most notable exception to this is Seeking, which can probably be fairly called a cult. It involves a very self-destructive, expensive, and lengthy quest, that ends either with character permadeath (the only such ending in the entire game), or - if you turn back and give up at the last step - a reward that’s unique, but ultimately of relatively little consequence compared to the length and cost required to acquire it.

Another thing worth mentioning is that in Fallen London you can’t really craft your own narrative - you can very much personalise your character, yes, with or without adding roleplaying elements of varying complexity and involvedness, but ultimately the options you’re presented with are limited to exactly what the game gives you and, if you progress to the end-game and keep playing for the long haul, you’ll basically going to want to go through all the available content, as much as possible. What this means is that you can’t do things like create your own personal, custom cult/guild/whatever, add your own interactions, etc. That’s just not how the format of the game works.

Some other things worth mentioning:

You can certainly learn of a few cults. Sometimes you can get involved, but - as mentioned above - none really offer any significant long-term consequences, except one (or maybe two, stretching the definition of a “cult”).
You can become Governor of London’s only remaining colony. Purely mechanically, it’s not particularly special, though it can be rather profitable. But then again, when the entire game is basically a choose-your-own-adventure type set of linked text boxes, I think this is a pretty good representation of ruling. Beyond that, you can gather great wealth and influence with time (and own some fantastic pieces of real estate), but you never get e.g. your own personal kingdom.
Hell literally has an embassy in London, and Hell proper is reachable by train. So yes, demons, and plenty. Lots of soul harvesting, stuff like that. They’re not giant flame breathing balrog-type battle demons though - most look like humans with red eyes, though you have some variety mostly consisting of goat-demons (which are exactly what they sound like, and you can own one as one of the best companions in the game for a very end-game price).
Plenty of varied combat, including an option to challenge other players, but keep in mind the “CYOA linked textbox” format - there’s no actual gameplay in FL. Sunless Sea is different of course, there you have actual combat.
There are quite a few factions and individuals to which you can get closer, for rewards and influence. Unfortunately what used to be a natural system for progression and regression got revamped a couple of years ago into a grind involving Favours that can be traded for rewards, but have absolutely no long-term consequence, and Renown which can be ground slowly, at cost, has a bunch of in-universe oddities or inconsistencies, and rarely comes into play. The main reward for renown is a unique piece of gear that’s usually superior or equal to almost all other alternatives, so mechanically it’s worth it, but the vast majority of the time whether you can or cannot do something is dictated by a) your progression through the set storylines, or b) your stats and/or wealth.

1stheretic · August 22, 2018, 3:10pm

I appreciate the replies as they are extremely helpful. Again, many thanks…the detailed clarifications provided excellent perspective.

So far, I’ve opted to play the free version of Fallen London & purchased Cultist Simulator.

Question on Fallen London Actions & subscription:

I have a pool of 20 actions[/li][li]Activities appear to take 1 (or more) actions[/li][li]Actions appear to refill 1 action per every 10 minutes (real time)

&quotExceptional Friends receive a substantial story every month, double the actions (up to 40 at once), more cards to draw in their opportunity deck (10 instead of 6) and access to the House of Chimes.&quot

#1 Am I to interpret that to mean that although my &quotpool&quot of action raises to 40, they still refill at 1 action per every 10 minutes (real time)?

#2 @PSGarak
Can you expand on the significance or nuance of this?

Thanks,
1stHeretic

dudebropyro · August 22, 2018, 4:13pm

Yep, that’s correct. EF only lets you pool your actions for longer, but doesn’t increase the rate at which they accumulate.
This is still important for fully optimised play, as unless you’re willing to lose sleep over the game there’s necessarily going to be a section where you’re limited by your maximum pool, so by having 40 actions available when you wake up essentially increases your maximum daily actions by 20. That’s probably not at all important for someone who’s just starting out at the game, though.
The same applies to cards, though the card pool being much smaller means the effect of being able to save more is much more noticeable, as unless you’re checking back extremely regularly you’re likely to run against the deck cap very often (even as an ES).

My guess is that this means the actual text interactions in those games - for instance, what you can do when at a port - are based on the exact same system as Fallen London, with storylets, stat checks, item unlocks/costs, etc. Of course, those games add the real-time gameplay component when travelling between ports, but when it comes to talking to NPCs, trading items, buying and selling from shops, and accepting/progressing quests, it’s all based on the same system as FL.
edited by Dudebro Pyro on 8/23/2018

ionadreemt · August 23, 2018, 2:33am

#1 Mmmm define cult. There are several factions of negligible repute, some of which might function how you’d like them to.

#2 Well, you can rise to a power of sorts, I guess. Not necessarily.

#3 Goat-headed ones that work for the aforementioned devils, not a lot of interaction with them though.

#4 Sort of? Not in a mechanics way but there is combat in the stories.

#5 Not unless you try REALLY REALLY HARD to get there.

#6 In a sense. There is a large rank-climbing aspect but it’s not a necessary part of the game(well, depends on how much content you want to see). You can also gain favors and renown with certain factions.

#7 Sunless Sea has a political aspect, and combat as well, although there is permadeath in the “hard” version. You can choose to support different political entities in different ways and even start your own colony.

I know a lot of these have been answered but I just wanted to get my two cents in!!

tyrconnell · August 23, 2018, 4:07am

I’ll add that in Fallen London there is death, but not perma-death. And unlike many games, it’s not unique to your character. Death is rather less permanent in Fallen London and it’s addressed, both seriously and with humor, by the story of the game.

1stheretic · August 23, 2018, 11:49pm

The explanations are immensely helpful.

Having fun playing both games[/li][li]20 actions goes quickly[/li][li]Ironically, not sure if i sorta hamstrung myself but for a while I purposely did not get a lodge at first[/li][li]It said they might arrest me (or something) & I was kinda of hoping for that to happen to get into Jail[/li][li]It never did happen (don’t know if that was just flavor text or if it can really happen)[/li][li]So i finally got a lodge & noticed it had several beneficial effects[/li][li]I chose dangerous path & was pleasantly surprised I went down a path that lead to me obtaining a Rat…fitting for Nurgle[/li][li]Racked up 5 wounds

Appreciate all the information

lordalexanderalderma · August 24, 2018, 12:03am

As for hamstringing yourself. There will always be ways forward, starting a new FL character costs a ton of time, you’re in for the long haul, but be aware that if you ever want to make drastically different choices, you can create multiple accounts with completely different characters. Also as you may have seen, there is going to be a redesign in the near future, nothing huge will change, but you’ll have to get used to some things you just got introduced too to be found in a different place.

1stheretic · August 26, 2018, 7:51pm