Does there exist somewhere a Google doc spreadsheet allowing one to enter in the desired amount of items needed to see what base compounds are required to grind for it?

As an example - I am grinding for a Lofty Tower room, although I lost my card just now in an unfortunate misclicking accident (argh!). I need 50 Bazaar Permits. I have 6 permits already, plus 39 Touching Love Stories, 68 Visions of the Surface, 270 Romantic Notions, and 1911 Drops of Prisoner’s Honey. I’d like to be able to enter in what I have, tell the spreadsheet what I need, and have it spit back what I’ll need to produce in order to get it.

When I was playing Glitch (requiescat in pace) there were a few community-created spreadsheets for crafting like this.

While not a spreadsheet, the info here should make this pretty straightforward: Item Conversions - Echo Bazaar

Hmm, I’m not sure if that’s quite accurate. I know I can convert 500 honeys into 105 notions, so that’s slightly better than 20%. Perhaps it’s just that there’s a bonus for going in bulk? I wonder if there’s a complete chart that shows the standard/bonus conversion rates.

There’s a bonus for trading in bulk.
If you convert what you have already, you’ll find you’re at approx. 16 permits. Then you need 34 more, which can be gained through casing. Otherwise, 35 permits are 437,5 E. If you get that much in the other items (or slightly below), you can convert them up. This is of course only approximate.
Converting up will also get you to 19 Love Stories if my maths are correct. Get the other 6 (+1 if you want to keep a spare one) by e.g. ambushing courier’s for old times sake, since that nets you one on a (not so) rare success. The spare correspondence can be used for Strong-backed labour if you can’t get them easier.
edited by Aximillio on 2/18/2013

Does anyone have a rough estimate of actions/permit for casing?

I currently have an Excel sheet, but it is limited to Romantic notions. You can for example put in your chance of failure and notions/action and it will tell you actions/permit or actions needed for a particular number of permits. This includes conversions but assumes that you are using bulk conversions ex 500 romantic notions = 105 Visions of the Surface

For example:

Lurk in the Eaves in Polythreme

Shadowy = 135; Success = .78; Romantic Notions = 12 x .78
1 Permit = 13.5 actions

35 permits + 5 Touching Love Stories + 25 Visions of the Surface = 4500 Romantic Notions + Conversion Costs (17 for 2500 RN)
460 actions + travel time

The actual number of actions will be less considering that you will gain in shadowy every 50 cp = 50 x (2 x Success Rate + (1 - Success Rate)) assuming Modest Difficulty

Unfortunately the spreadsheet is extremely unpolished and would need a fair amount of work to be ready for prime time. What you want specifically is possible but much more work even than what I did. Changing success rate could also be incorporated in theory but for each different storyline the Difficulty Quotient (Difficulty Scaler / Difficulty Level) is different and would have to be determined individually (which is done by observing success rate changes with different gear on)

If you have a boat I would suggest this path unless somebody else knows of a romantic notions grind better than 12 (there may very well be one)

If you tell me what your shadowy is I can give you a quick estimate)
edited by DBHolder on 2/18/2013

Very interesting! I have been grinding at court for 45 drops/action (The Corruption of Youth/Join a Picnic Expedition; there’s no penalty save a small hit to Hedonist on failure, which is why I chose it). So I believe that at base rates:

1 permit = 5 love stories = 25 visions = 125 romantic notions = 625 drops of honey, right?

So 625 drops at 45/action (88% success)=13.8/permit, which is 15.8/action adjusted for success at Court.

My Shadowy is only 112 with equipment, so I’m not sure if the Polythreme option would be best for me at this point. I just bought a ship and found the other map half, but have not actually assembled my screaming map yet. The card hasn’t popped up.

Oh, and one other thing to take into account - building Bohemian connections for conversion. I used mine up making the first 6 permits.

Hoo boy, I hope the Lofty Tower card filters back through my hand again soon.

[quote=DBHolder]Does anyone have a rough estimate of actions/permit for casing?

I currently have an Excel sheet, but it is limited to Romantic notions. You can for example put in your chance of failure and notions/action and it will tell you actions/permit or actions needed for a particular number of permits. This includes conversions but assumes that you are using bulk conversions ex 500 romantic notions = 105 Visions of the Surface

For example:

Lurk in the Eaves in Polythreme

Shadowy = 135; Success = .78; Romantic Notions = 12 x .78
1 Permit = 13.5 actions

35 permits + 5 Touching Love Stories + 25 Visions of the Surface = 4500 Romantic Notions + Conversion Costs (17 for 2500 RN)
460 actions + travel time

The actual number of actions will be less considering that you will gain in shadowy every 50 cp = 50 x (2 x Success Rate + (1 - Success Rate)) assuming Modest Difficulty

Unfortunately the spreadsheet is extremely unpolished and would need a fair amount of work to be ready for prime time. What you want specifically is possible but much more work even than what I did. Changing success rate could also be incorporated in theory but for each different storyline the Difficulty Quotient (Difficulty Scaler / Difficulty Level) is different and would have to be determined individually (which is done by observing success rate changes with different gear on)

If you have a boat I would suggest this path unless somebody else knows of a romantic notions grind better than 12 (there may very well be one)

If you tell me what your shadowy is I can give you a quick estimate)
edited by DBHolder on 2/18/2013[/quote]

May I suggest you just steal the Permits at the Flit? I think the rough estimate is 1 permit per 11 actions. Which is vastly more efficient than honey conversion.

Yep, although that may have changed with the difficulty rebalance.

I would definitely stay put. Your Shadowy of 112 only gives a 64% chance of success and yields 16.3/permit including conversions on Polythreme

Going from honey to 35 permits will end up running you 40 actions in conversion costs, but skipping honey will only save you 9.

The other big factor is leveling up. A higher success rate will end up giving you a 2 cp success rather than a 1 cp failure much more often, which will help a lot in the long run.

I am currently about 150 actions from getting the 41 permits I still need. Sweet life here I come.

Stealing Permits in the Flit is still probably the most efficient, even at relatively low shadowy levels and after the rebalance. Stealing via ‘Thefts of a Particular Character’ will always get you the item, it just costs more ‘Casing…’ if you fail.

So, assuming failure will cost you 48 cp of Casing (The wiki says ~50 cp, and 48cp is 150% the cost of a success, which is 32 cp). So without a gang of hoodlums, a failure will average out to a cost of 17 actions per Permit (16 to raise Casing @ 3 casing/action using ‘The decoy’ + 1 to commit the robbery). Once you consider the action cost for converting honey to permits (which I am too lazy to calculate), it should be at least as efficient a a method as grinding honey at court, even under the worst case scenario.

That being said, if you are a PoSI and are really intent on grinding honey, you should do it via ‘Doing the decent thing’ (under “unfinished business in Veilgarden”) since that will get you 50 honey/action.

ETA: Now that I’m out of the tomb colonies, I managed to check the percentages on thefts in the flit–Shadowy 112 gives you a 65% chance of success on stealing a Bazaar Permit. In this case, looks like the switch to broad difficulty is actually a benefit in this case, since it ups your chances of success at lower levels considerably.

So you’re looking at an estimated (32cp*.65+48cp*.35) = 37.6 cp of casing expended per run. Raising Casing… at 3cp/turn (w/o a gang of hoodlums) will take 12.53 turns, plus the additional turn to steal the permit, which comes out to roughly 14 turns per Bazaar Permit stolen.
edited by protonsinthedark on 2/18/2013