So I’m on my second captain, have managed to uncover about half or more of the map. The parts that remain uncovered are most of the eastern section (minus the Khalinate or whatever it’s called), and areas small enough that I’m fairly comfortable that there’s nothing of interest inside them (unless a zee-bat doesn’t reveal some things in the game).
The problem is that I don’t really know what to do next. I’ve hit a ton of ports in the game, explored them quite thoroughly (or what feels like it). There doesn’t seem to be too much left, minus an assorted quest or two that I’ve probably forgotten the location of, or places that will require multiple hours or days of work just to unlock (such as having to transport what looks like will amount to 25 units of coffee beans, etc, across most of the map and back).
Ship upgrades seem worthless, or not worth the time. None of the ships look all that attractive. They all have smaller holds or heavier ships or are prohibitively expensive to the point that I’ll essentially be doing Korean-MMO-grinding just to afford them.
I’ve stopped receiving admiralty favors (for some reason) for port reports from previously visited ports, and the eastern section of the map is pretty much out of my reach with the limited cargo space and fuel consumption of the boat I have.
I really don’t know where to go or what to do next. It feels like I’ve covered everything on the map that I can reach, and have nothing else worthwhile to work towards.
You should’ve picked a main goal during character creation (i.e. find your father’s bones).
Also, you only get admiralty favour from your first report from a given location. Afterwards it’s just a barrel of fuel and a modest amount of echoes (though more from dangerous/distant locations).
Unfortunately, you’re mostly right about equipment upgrades. Ships are somewhat more useful, particularly the merchant cruiser, I’ve heard, but in my eyes they mostly seem to represent increased expenses (more fuel per trip to move the larger weights, more mouths to feed due to higher crew requirements) unless you mean to do heavy combat.
I’ve yet to find ways to make the necessary thousands of echoes without massive grinding, so that’s probably affecting my perception.
Hi Molecular. If you are relying on port reports and goods transport for your profits then you are working against the game design.
The game is designed to envelop you in plots which will require repeated visits to relevant islands, and pay out with larger rewards at the end. That’s how you’re going to make your money.
Also, remember that you can buy fuel and supplies from ports around the unterzee. Not just in London. As for what to do next, try remembering the material requirements for a certain story at a port, and then bring those to the port and see what happens.
Port reports are not themselves the meat of this game. They just help new players. The game’s heart is in the desire to learn about the world and pursue the stories. And the chief reward is in stories, not in echoes.
Though that does make it odd that there is a wealth ambition.
There’s three massive mechanics issues with Sunless Sea at the moment:
The entire game is balanced around port reports and artificially making echos scarce so that fuel / supplies are limited. I raised ~14k legitimately (see point #3) and bought the maenad and the serpentine engine. My speed was the same. My fuel / supplies consumption went up. I had +30 more cargo, but I had exactly the same routine as pre-upgrade. In this game, if you upgrade without a buffer zone of 2-3k, you’re dead.
The game is intended to be played so that you unlock the various endings / special circumstances / legacies slowly, and pass down your benefits to your scions. The issue with this is really simple:
2a) New players cannot know about legacies while playing / accidentally unlocking them
2b) Farming a house / scion is actually quite tough
2c) You have zero chance at certain events until you understand how to stats or pass on legacies or otherwise abuse mechanics
At the moment there are a few trading options. Balanced ones like mushroom wine > apes > coffee > irem > linen. Sure, you could do those.
OR: you can abuse the crap out of sunlight. Sunlight is so broken, the game even includes a ridiculous story event for it:
Grind to maeada (70 hold)
Unlock bruiser
Buy 36 boxes
Go up to sunlight
Terror is reduced by 40+ just by going
Fill boxes
Grab anarchist event
Go to London - 1 box profit (400) is more than the fuel you spent, without even considering the anarchist top-up. The Anarchist hand-in (x6 times) gives x11 fuel etc, the bruiser buys them for 400 and hands empty boxes back… so rinse, repeat x6.
Did we mention that the canal is literally 2-3 fuel south of London? Oh, so, that’s a really short journey then.
That’s 80k profit. More if you’re boring and do it with a merchant vessel.
So, no. The game is massively unbalanced / broken atm. I expect twee little “down votes” for saying this, but really… EA / beta is supposed to catch these things.
Instead, the sunlight abuse run is actually coded into the experience. And instead of anyone noticing this… the Aest isle got the wound nerf. >.<
Badly balanced, badly designed. edited by ZeaCat on 2/13/2015
If you finish off some story lines, you’ll get rewards like a Captivating Treasure or a Searing Enigma, both of which sell for 1000 echos in London (be careful about selling your last ones though as they are needed for some stories). There’s always a reward for completing a story, some more impressive than others. As mentioned above, stories are what you should be looking for, learning about the different Islands, exploring some of the more dangerous areas, such as Frostfound and Godfall. Talk to your officers and do their quests as well for some neat stuff. And remember that you can buy fuel from other ports beside London. It’s usually more expensive, but if you want to explore the furthest reaches of the map, you’re gonna have to pay it.
I’m almost certain the sunlight run as it exists now didn’t become possible until very late in the development process, so not a lot of time for it to be caught. Things like buying Mirrorcatch Boxes at Khan’s Shadow, etc. were not always possible. There’s at least one other way to acquire sunlight that is, imho, very much balanced, as it can easily kill you in the process. edited by Olorin on 2/13/2015
[li]There’s your problem! The starter ship will get you around the western zee, sure, but you can’t easily reach the more distant, lucrative ports with it, or equip the more powerful weapons you’ll need to start profitably hunting monsters and pirates. The bigger ships are heavier, sure, so you’ll need bigger engines and more fuel - but the hold space and money-making capability more than compensate for the fuel requirements.
Quest-wise, well, have you hunted down all the pieces required for Principles’ End or the Curator? Those can pay out very nicely, with top-notch Officers and/or a several thousand’s worth of loot. Have you unlocked the Voracious Diplomat and planted Agents in Khan’s Heart and Port Carnelian? Once you invest a bit of time in those, you can pick up Vital Intelligence every time you visit, which adds up very quickly.
Equipment-wise, your Forward weapons are the most powerful, especially the two quest reward ones. Get a ship that can equip one of those, and level up your combat stats, and before too long you’ll be able to take down boss monsters for ~1k a pop, plus hunting Tyrant-Moths for Sapphires, Morays for Ivory, and pretty much everything else for Trophies.
Long story short - invest money and you’ll make more money. At that point, Port Reports are small fry.
False - you can safely do a round-trip of 12-18 ports with the starting vessel. In fact, the entire game is balanced around the starting vessel’s speed and so on.
False - unless you’re hunting lifebergs or killing specific enemies for plot related goals, you never need to upgrade your combat capabilities (there’s even a secret ship you can unlock after a huge long difficult quest… that has the same stats as the starting vessel apart from +bonuses to stats)
Bigger, heavier, larger engines = more fuel, more supplies and less SALs (events - 60 seconds = 1 port event, if you travel faster than this, prepare to not be able to do things in ports)
False. The curator quest has a massive amount of game time / echos investment / other quests to fulfill and you get:
a crappy mascot
or
like 4k of treasure
or
a crappy ship you’ve long outgrown
or
can’t even remember the other option it was so pointless
Regarding vital secrets etc - sure, they’re good, but… is 350 / 500 echoes really that good for the time spent? (hint: no)
Sapphire. 95 max sell
Ivory. 28?
And so on. Hunting Zea beasts at the moment (apart from lifebergs) really doesn’t return anything like the amounts you spend getting it from them. (There’s 1 exception - story driven purple starfish)
False. If you play vanilla, and don’t abuse sunlight, upgrading actually harms your ability to make echoes. And you will still be farming port reports even once you just upgraded to the maenada and serpentine!
The entire economy of the game is borked, full stop.
Hey, I love it when a moderator is spouting nonsense. edited by ZeaCat on 2/13/2015
[li]I’ll remind you that forum rules require that you be polite and respectful, and refrain from being offensive or deliberately provocative. Also, while they don’t specifically prohibit being a Negative Nancy, it’s certainly not the best kind of Nancy you could be.
I play vanilla and don’t abuse sunlight, and the money is still slowly and steadily rolling in as I tootle around the map in my frigate with “upgraded” equipment in every slot. But I’ve always known I was a unicorn, eh? ;)
Your wrong about the First Curator quest. From doing all parts of it you will gain 6 Captivating treasures that sell for 1k each. It can be a little time consuming, but doesn’t have to cost lots of money. I usually only spend 77 echoes completing it, not including fuel and supplies obviously, but you can pick up all the items you need as you travel around the ports anyway.
The rewards are a choice between fragments (rubbish, I’ll grant you that one), 7 captivating treasure (making a total of 13 treasures therefore 13k reward), a moth mascot (also pretty rubbish) or a ship. The ship costs you nothing, has extra hold space and boosts up some of your stats making it an excellent upgrade you didnt have to pay for.
In the end, there isn’t really a lot to spend money ON so I don’t really know what all the fuss is about. Sure, you can buy a zeeside mansion, but you dont get much benefit. You can have the biggest ship, but you dont NEED it as you can avoid most enemies anyway. The stories are what hold the entire game together, but people seem to get so obsessed with watching their money climb they miss that.
I believe I literally saw someone on a different board post that they had exploited some-such way of making lots of money in a short time, and now, to their unhappiness, they had nothing on which to spend it.
Adding to what Madmurdock, Fretling and SFT-C said,
The principles quest is also highly rewarding. 77 scintillack is nothing to scoff at.
I did not abuse sunlight, played vanilla and upgraded the forward guns, my engines and my ship.
I used the merchant ship to trade and made 30k+ echoes and bought a frigate recently.
If you want to rush through the game and make infinite money, sure go ahead and abuse sunlight all you want. The crux of the game for me, lies however in completing quests, enjoying the writing and unraveling the subplots.
[ul][li]In the starting ship, with no upgrades, baseline stats, and ten crew, 20 fuel and 15 supplies reliably gets me all the way to the uttermost East and back without having to buy more. (That’s straight East, returning one map row above or below. It might be more accurate to say that this allows a voyage which visits 10–12 map tiles.) If that seems impossible to you, try turning the lights off more often. I usually return to London with 1 or 2 fuel and 3 or 4 supplies left, and Terror between 60 and 80.
[/li][li]On each voyage, you should have a specific goal in mind when you leave London—"find out what’s in those four unexplored tiles", "run prisoner’s honey to the Uttershroom and pick up blemmigans", that sort of thing—and you should plan your route in advance, and then you should hit every single port along the way and get the Port Report. I haven’t spaded this out exactly, but I think the break-even point on Port Reports alone—that is, the Admiralty pays you enough to cover 20 fuel, 15 supplies, and 50 points of Terror reduction just for those—is about 10 reports. Conveniently, a voyage which visits 10–12 map tiles should turn in 10–14 Port Reports.
[/li][li]Until you know where most things are, each voyage should uncover more of the map; after you know where most things are, each voyage should advance at least two storylines; plus always try to get Strategic Information, Clay Men, and sphinxstone if it fits into your route.
[/li][li]The only ship upgrade that I’m sure is worth buying is the Hellthrasher. With the Hellthrasher and Iron ~60 you can reliably one-hit zee-bats, steam-pinnaces, and Auroral Megalops, which means you don’t have to worry about getting killed in sight of home. Do not attempt to fight anything else in the starting ship, particularly if your turning rate is slow, until you have a lot more Iron. (I have not yet managed to construct any of the weapons created via plot events, or afford any of the ships with more gun slots.)
[/li][li]You also definitely want to purchase an Elegant Mansion and an Ironclad Will as soon as possible, and once you have them, you should romance someone in London and start a family; the benefits to this are enormous. (Terror reduction is ~50% cheaper with a family to come home to; a Scion lets you pass more stats along when you die, Heirlooms let you pass money along too.) Romancing an officer is more fun story-wise but not as rewarding, which makes me a little sad.
[/li][li]If you have one of the bigger ships, don’t run with a full crew! 30 crew eat three times as much food as 10 crew. You gotta have a margin above half, but the difference in supply consumption between 20 and 30 crew is easily the difference between turning a profit and turning to cannibalism. (That said, once you have a bigger ship you should be able to safely hunt Pirate Frigates, Western Angler Crabs, and Bound-Sharks for extra food.)
[/li][li]Finally, to underscore what others have said: your goals in this game should be driven by storylines, not trading. You will have more fun and you will wind up making more money. Every officer has a storyline now, I think? And many of the far ports do too.
[/li][/ul] edited by zwol on 2/13/2015 edited by zwol on 2/13/2015
You can pretty easily do a large loop of almost the entire map in the starting ship, you just want to refuel once or twice. (Ideally at Mount Palmerstone or the Iron Republic, but Adam’s Way is a decent spot too; also pick up supplies there)
But yes also trading is not the goal for the most part, trading (along with port reports) is just a way to help cover costs while you do more storylines.
Except possibly the sunlight trade which is just ridiculous. (I’d se the Isle of Cats instead of London though, since there’s no risk of being caught by dock inspectors. Though they can steal your boxes, but they pay more if they do, so.)
Yes, and I have a full compliment of officers, plus a few extras. I do remember one of them wanted me to take them somewhere? I think? But it’s been a while, and I vaguely recall that the cost of… oh, hey, I might actually be able to afford that now.
One other guy needs stuff that I can’t remember the location of. Only place I saw one was in one of the many many shops around the area, and it’ll take me hours to find it again. (Actually, see the very bottom of this post for more details.)
Yup. First captain had "write some poem", but the requirements were absurd numbers of things I didn’t even know how to obtain, so I picked "Become venerated explorer" the second time around… which I don’t know how to do. I’m exploring things, but I’ve run out of places I can reliably or safely reach, and I don’t even know if uncovering the map is my goal or not.
No, actually most of my reliable profits have come from the occasional ‘very valuable thing’ (I can’t remember the name of) that I’ve stumbled across on a few islands. I was hoping I’d find more, but I haven’t, and now I’m out of places to visit. For example, I’ve only done a couple passenger deliveries, and a couple deliveries of Sphinxstone. I could keep doing that, but it kinda feels like I’m not making much when I do, so I really see it as more of a thing I can grab when the opportunity presents.
Repeated visits to the easier to reach places haven’t achieved much. I’ve seen nothing new appear or happen. For example, Pigmote. I visited it, and the everything about that isle was resolved the first time I visited it, or so it seems. Subsequent visits have done nothing. There are some places out way out where I can barely afford to reach that seem like they have more to happen, but they all seem to require things like those 25 coffee beans and such, which is a crazy expense for something so useless as another set of shops I can’t afford to reach.
Most ports are prohibitively expensive, so I avoid buying there. I didn’t manage to finally acquire more than 1000 Echoes I don’t have something immediate to spend on by spending it on really expensive fuel or supplies. If I buy places that are too expensive, I’ll run out of money and be stranded.
There’s your problem! The starter ship will get you around the western zee, sure, but you can’t easily reach the more distant, lucrative ports with it, or equip the more powerful weapons you’ll need to start profitably hunting monsters and pirates. The bigger ships are heavier, sure, so you’ll need bigger engines and more fuel - but the hold space and money-making capability more than compensate for the fuel requirements.[/quote]
The first ship upgrade that I can see is 7000 echoes. I am not getting 7000 echoes any time soon. Everything listed before that ship is a downgrade. One might have more health, but I’m not fighting things, so I don’t need more health.
Who-what now? I did get a book from some dude, but it and the pages that came with it are so completely cryptic as to be worthless to me. I fully expect to not be able to seek out any of whatever it is I’m supposed to be collecting on that quest (colors? the quest description was cryptic too, and I’ve forgotten most of the details) that I suspect the only time I’ll ever collect any of it will be on complete accident. If I don’t have a way of knowing what I’m supposed to be aiming for or even looking for, the quest is worthless to me. (And no spoilers, please.) Is that what you’re talking about? Because if it is, I’m fucked. There’s no chance I can finish any of that quest, because I don’t understand it, or the clues, and I’m a relatively smart guy.
No. I’ve seen a few locked things that suggest diplomacy of some kind, but I haven’t the faintest idea how to unlock them. (Again, no spoilers.)
[quote=zwol]Some personal observations.
[ul][li]In the starting ship, with no upgrades, baseline stats, and ten crew, 20 fuel and 15 supplies reliably gets me all the way to the uttermost East and back without having to buy more. (That’s straight East, returning one map row above or below. It might be more accurate to say that this allows a voyage which visits 10–12 map tiles.) If that seems impossible to you, try turning the lights off more often. I usually return to London with 1 or 2 fuel and 3 or 4 supplies left, and Terror between 60 and 80.
[/quote][/li][/ul]I’m already hovering around 60-80 terror, having started toying with the lights. I don’t like the fact that the tutorial never mentioned that the lights run on fuel, but I did read about it somewhere.
[quote=zwol]
[ul][li]On each voyage, you should have a specific goal in mind when you leave London—"find out what’s in those four unexplored tiles", "run prisoner’s honey to the Uttershroom and pick up blemmigans", that sort of thing—and you should plan your route in advance, and then you should hit every single port along the way and get the Port Report. I haven’t spaded this out exactly, but I think the break-even point on Port Reports alone—that is, the Admiralty pays you enough to cover 20 fuel, 15 supplies, and 50 points of Terror reduction just for those—is about 10 reports. Conveniently, a voyage which visits 10–12 map tiles should turn in 10–14 Port Report[/li][/ul][/quote](Oi, dealing with these bullet points in a quote is a NIGHTMARE. They bleed everywhere.)
I always leave port with a goal in mind. I’ve just run out of goals, other than repeating islands I’ve already been to, most of which seemed out of things to offer me or never having had anything to offer me to start with. That’s why I started the thread.
[quote=zwol]
Until you know where most things are, each voyage should uncover more of the map; after you know where most things are, each voyage should advance at least two storylines; plus always try to get Strategic Information, Clay Men, and sphinxstone if it fits into your route.
I’m already doing this. Precisely this. Except for the storyline bit, since I seem to be out of achievable storylines. I honestly don’t really remember having any real achievable storylines anyway. The tomb-dude got his visitor, and that went nowhere fast. The weird book about colors might as well be a quest with clues written in ancient Greek.
Everything else I have is either unreachable or entirely too cryptic to know where to begin. The one thing I have left that I can actually achieve is going to cost me 1000 (most of my) echoes to get two live specimens. Risky, expensive, but I suppose it’s the only thing I have left that I can do.
[quote=zwol]
[ul][li]The only ship upgrade that I’m sure is worth buying is the Hellthrasher. With the Hellthrasher and Iron ~60 you can reliably one-hit zee-bats, steam-pinnaces, and Auroral Megalops, which means you don’t have to worry about getting killed in sight of home. Do not attempt to fight anything else in the starting ship, particularly if your turning rate is slow, until you have a lot more Iron. (I have not yet managed to construct any of the weapons created via plot events, or afford any of the ships with more gun slots.)
[/li][/ul][/quote]
Yeah, I don’t fight anything, unless I’m sure I can beat it. I don’t even fight those 75HP charging jellyfish. Toughest thing I’ve fought was an Unfinished Men ship? Maybe?
[quote=zwol]
[ul][li]You also definitely want to purchase an Elegant Mansion and an Ironclad Will as soon as possible, and once you have them, you should romance someone in London and start a family; the benefits to this are enormous. (Terror reduction is ~50% cheaper with a family to come home to; a Scion lets you pass more stats along when you die, Heirlooms let you pass money along too.) Romancing an officer is more fun story-wise but not as rewarding, which makes me a little sad.
[/li][/ul][/quote]
Have a will already, my romance options ended before they went anywhere. She died under some weird circumstances I know little to nothing about. Now my only option is that I "love the zee".
[quote=zwol]
Finally, to underscore what others have said: your goals in this game should be driven by storylines, not trading. You will have more fun and you will wind up making more money. Every officer has a storyline now, I think? And many of the far ports do too.
Problem is, almost all of those story lines are something I don’t know how to advance. I need some sort’ve "Strange Catch" (two of them, in fact, and no idea how to get it), a "Serpent Trap" (no idea how to get it), two live specimens (incredibly expensive, but I can afford it, it’ll be the only thing I can do now at this point so I’ll do that next, goodbye 1000 echoes), expensive coffee beans and a lot more Iron (only a 32% chance to succeed, and considering the costs, I’m wary of trying at that percentage chance), and I need to visit somewhere virtually out of my range (and entirely undiscovered).
So yeah, three entirely unachievable things, two very expensive things, and a thing out of my current range, all for my officers. (One officer has no goal or story, it seems.) edited by Moleculor on 2/13/2015
stats or pass on legacies or otherwise abuse mechanics