As an asexual-aromantic IRL, I had the idea that my first character would, likewise, be asexual-aromantic. As such, I consulted several of my existing Fallen-London-playing friends, made sure this was possible, and then set out on this curious challenge run.
This was before I knew how important love was to the Fallen London lore. Watching this decision interact with the setting has proved rather interesting.
Ms. Hesperidia has been locked out of the A Name Signed With A Flourish route, and has had to pursue alternate methods of increasing Persuasive. (She recently reached Mahogany Hall through the Shadowy option, so this isn’t nearly as much of a problem anymore.) She recently became a Person of Some Importance, and has vowed that she will never acquire a spouse.
It is curious that a woman who came to Fallen London to learn of its secrets seemingly does not feel the very love that the Bazaar so values. She hoped to delve into the details of what, precisely, the Bazaar needs - and why - as a side-project while teaching the Correspondence at the University. But after the incident with the Provost of Summerset that derailed her career, she has decided that she may as well just investigate on her own, using the occasional act of larceny to cover her expenses.
Anyway. I’ve looked through some of the lore (and don’t mind being spoiled), so the question is:
What, precisely, is the love the Bazaar needs? Eros, philia, storge, agape? Is there a place in the Fifth City for the heartless? Are there storylines I should be checking out?
[spoiler]From what I’ve been able to gather, The Baazar is gathering love stories in the hope that when finally must deliver it’s message to the Sun the Sun won’t die of sadness. The lore surrounding the whole thing is pretty vague. It seems likely that The Baazar loves the Sun. It’s unclear whether the Sun loves The Baazar. The Sun definitely sent The Baazar with a message of love to another… something (Judgement presumably) and the response appears to be a no. Everything gets kind of complicated when you consider that The Baazar and the Sun have a daughter (the mountain of light) which makes them both guilty of amalgamy.
It seems heavily implied by Passion destiny that the love story given vague form at the end of Secrets Framed in Gold is exactly what The Baazar is looking for. Stories of deep affection between people at different places on the chain.
Going into truely wild guessing territory here’s what I’d say is going on. The Bazaar and the Sun had some kind of relationship that was very much against the rules. The other Judgements (or time eating dragons or whatever) forced them to break it off. The Sun found another of it’s kind that it fancies and has reached out to it with The Baazar acting as messenger. The response was a no and The Bazaar is afraid to deliver the message for fear that the Sun will die of sadness. So it’s trying to come with proof that things could still maybe work out between them.
Or maybe that’s all wrong. There isn’t a lot of material out there on this. The Seventh Letter play which you get the opportunity to see once during the feast of the exceptional rose is the best source of information on what’s up with The Baazar and it’s super vague and metaphorical.[/spoiler] edited by An Individual on 6/20/2016
The Bazaar requires love of all sorts, but romantic love seems to be the common sort accepted. Though you may have an advantage of a sort: as the Bazaar Sidestreets say, “And whatever you do, don’t fall in love.”
Though I suppose if your character is so inclined you could still pursue A Name Signed with a Flourish. Love can be readily used as a tool or a weapon. Making others love you does not require you to love them back.
The only iron-clad specification of “what kind of love stories are needed” seems to be “real.” Forced, manufactured events are not accepted. Besides that, I’d say that passion seems to be an important factor.
As far as I can tell this is all right, but there’s a kind of desperate desire to get back together shown in the particular demand for amalgamic(?) love stories. I’m less shipping then creeped out by this to be honest. I find the Liberation to be only slightly less unappealing then needy, obsessive exes.
Agreed. I’ve always enjoyed this quote from my Noman. Particularly…
"Don’t trust the Bazaar. Don’t feel sorry for it. Love is a demand, not a solution."
I’m not a big fan of the Liberation either. But we are small creatures. Trapped by the chain. Scurrying among the feet of giants. Capable of doing little more than gazing in horror at the actions of those above us.
Agreed. I’ve always enjoyed this quote from my Noman. Particularly…
"Don’t trust the Bazaar. Don’t feel sorry for it. Love is a demand, not a solution."
I’m not a big fan of the Liberation either. But we are small creatures. Trapped by the chain. Scurrying among the feet of giants. Capable of doing little more than gazing in horror at the actions of those above us.[/quote]
The solution lies with the shapelings. Red Science. Why break a chain when you can reforge it?
Regardless, though, there are many reasons you can pursue a Name Signed with a Flourish. Seduction is the art of apearing more in love than you are, and that is where you will have an advantage. Hang back, assess, abuse, use. All for the greater good. Maybe even their great good. Who can say? Perhaps there is something important enough to you to seek gain at the cost of others.
As an asexual and not-sure-if-romantic-or-just-sappy IRL, I also rp with a lady that has no interest in romance and is kinda awkward around people trying to seduce her. I didn’t think the Persuasive line was a no-no for me because you don’t really have to consumate your relationships with people around you, just fascinate them until you meet your goals (whatever they are). I rp-ed most of the Persuasive romances line by having my character either too oblivious to notice that they were trying to seduce her and that her actions could be seen as seduction, utterly bored by having to feign romance in Court (but doing it because she needed the notability among society to get her ship), and firmly and decisively deciding that no actual sex ever happened in the events that weren’t described, just hinted (for instance, in the intrigue with the Curate and his ‘Sister’, there is a scene that states that you spent the night in the room with either of them, and that you all seem happy the other day, but it doesn’t explicitly tell what happened in the room. My headcanon involves a delightful night of them geeking about any kind of subject - maybe neath-bible verses, maybe the nature of Rubbery Men - and being happy to achieve an understanding in the morning).
I’m not saying it’s perfect - sometimes I do feel like the game is trying very hard to get your character in other people’s beds and penalizing you for not doing it, but eh. I have fun subverting it with my crazy headcanons, and I don’t really care if people say that I can’t do it, that what matters is what is written, that I take too many liberties, yadda-yadda. My free time, my rules. If I decide that my character is a pink anthropomorphic flower because it makes me laugh as I play (despite all evidence in contrary offered by the game), I don’t really see how anyone can stop me. There’s no Fun Police out there.
That is one of the things that with a text only game, you leave a lot up to the imagination. As for romance, since getting married, most of the text as being translated into “spent all night playing parcheesi, or got drunk and discussed if anyone really got poetry.”
(I for one am fond of head canon narrative that go against the grain of the game. My most famous example with friends was when I decided during P.T. that I was a cockroach with delusions. This frustrated my roommate when I managed to actually find the end, while still claiming to be a crazy cockroach.)
[quote=hesperidia]<snipped> Anyway. I’ve looked through some of the lore (and don’t mind being spoiled), so the question is:
What, precisely, is the love the Bazaar needs? Eros, philia, storge, agape? Is there a place in the Fifth City for the heartless? Are there storylines I should be checking out?[/quote]
Look to the stories of the bargains that led to the thefts of the cities the Bazaar has taken.
We know why London was taken: The monarch now called the Traitor Empress sold London to the Masters in return for the miraculous recovery of her beloved consort, Prince Albert. The exact bargain that led to the taking of Karakorum involved the love of the Princess (now apparently the Widow) for a sculptor named William.
I would say that the Bazaar seeks romantic love, whether it triumphs or whether the lovers are tragically separate.
And as for whether the heartless have a role in Fallen London, of course they do! It’s the same role as for the soulless–commerce! They do not generate the romances the Bazaar so intently seeks; they trade in, and compound them.
I apologize for the tardiness of my reply - I’d forgotten about this topic.
First, a disclaimer based on personal baggage. I have been accused of "leading people on" and it has been deeply hurtful. So I do not lie about matters of the heart, and I avoid things that give the appearance of a romantic relationship (lest other parties assume that there is romance involved where there is none). This is probably not the usual approach. But I have been willing to forego certain opportunities for it, both in-game and out.
The challenge run has, itself, been fascinating; and there is plenty of content in Fallen London outside of it. Now that I have found Mahogany Hall, there is a place for me to use Persuasive techniques once again.
I find this to be an extremely interesting solution. The one with the most roleplaying potential, too.
My character regularly sponsors expeditions for dream-lovers, with mass quantities of Prisoner’s Honey; and now I picture her flitting about from fainting-couch to fainting-couch, scribbling romantic notions down in an utterly disinterested manner, making comments like…
[ul][li]"I am not qualified to speculate on whether she will ever want to see you again."[/li][li]"The sensation of fright and the sensation of attraction are close neighbors, and it is easy to tip from one to the other."[/li][li]"Forbidden love does often create more interesting stories than trivially consummate love."[/li][li]"And then what did you do?"[/li][li]"That level of detail may be too crass for my usual buyers. Perhaps I might find a home for it with the Bohemians, though."[/li][li]"A perceived social boundary. Curious."[/li][li]"There is probably a Correspondence sigil for that."[/li][li]"Physiological arousal. Perfectly normal. Do continue."[/li][li]"If it’s any consolation, this will become a harmless tale, to be repeated with a laugh across the dinner-table, within the year."[/li][/ul]Well, all this has been some very interesting food for thought! Have a wonderful day. edited by hesperidia on 7/20/2016 edited by hesperidia on 7/20/2016