[quote=LawrenceKeyworth]Oh, good I’m so glad to see "individual of mysterious" etc return to the profile pages.
I too like the earlier poster would love to see Glassman become gender neutral as well, at some point.
Thanks again (and still!) for doing such a good job with gender. I originally heard about the game on Autostraddle in the context of how well it treats gender. It’s really refreshing to see a game where the developers are dedicated to being open and then continue to think critically and try to improve the game playing experience.[/quote]
Yeah, even though I never used that myself, I missed having it gone, so its nice to have it back ^_^
Second the bit about Glassman, though rather than create a new gender neutral title I think it would be more aesthetically pleasing to have an alternative "Glass-Lady." As in, I’m a Glass-lady, thank you very much.
About the Glassman:
I’m not 100% sure, but I think it’s part of Parabolan lore that gender really doesn’t mean anything there. Note that in the profession’s description, the Glassman is referred to as "she".
There’s also a Fate-locked Destiny where the "Fingerkings’ Huntsman" is mentioned - without implying that this Huntsman actually needs to be male. In the same mood, how do we know whether all of the Finger"Kings" are male? I think it’s just down to the whole weirdness of the realm of Is-Not.
Mind you, I’m not saying that I wouldn’t feel weird being called "Glassman". I’m just saying there’s probably a reason for it… ***
(*** if reason counts for anything in Parabola) ;)
[quote=phryne]About the Glassman:
I’m not 100% sure, but I think it’s part of Parabolan lore that gender really doesn’t mean anything there. Note that in the profession’s description, the Glassman is referred to as "she".
There’s also a Fate-locked Destiny where the "Fingerkings’ Huntsman" is mentioned - without implying that this Huntsman actually needs to be male. In the same mood, how do we know whether all of the Finger"Kings" are male? I think it’s just down to the whole weirdness of the realm of Is-Not.
Mind you, I’m not saying that I wouldn’t feel weird being called "Glassman". I’m just saying there’s probably a reason for it… ***
(*** if reason counts for anything in Parabola) ;)[/quote]
Weird language in unreal Parabola is one thing (when you become the Huntsman you’ve always been the Huntsman, so being the Huntsman is the least of your concerns), while a title of address in London is entirely another :P
phryne: you probably see the Glassman being referred to as “she” because your character is a lady - gentlemen and individuals of mysterious and indinstinct gender see a “he”. I think, at least? I haven’t checked in a very long time but I remember it being a point of contention a while ago.
This one is still troublesome but those changes are very welcome, thanks Failbetter! Now to hopefully get my bugged page of the Liber Visionis back and update my cameo.
I’m not thrilled with Glassman, but I accept it. Some times it fits my character, sometimes it’s wrong. I should certainly have preferred a gender-neutral term.
For what it’s worth Glass-Lady fails the same “roughly half of the time” for me that Glassman does.
[quote=Calembredaine]phryne: you probably see the Glassman being referred to as "she" because your character is a lady - gentlemen and individuals of mysterious and indinstinct gender see a "he". I think, at least? I haven’t checked in a very long time but I remember it being a point of contention a while ago.
This one is still troublesome but those changes are very welcome, thanks Failbetter! Now to hopefully get my bugged page of the Liber Visionis back and update my cameo.[/quote]
Nope, that’s generic description text and doesn’t change with set gender - my character is male and saw "she" too, iirc.
To vaguely paraphrase a book, who cares if Fingerkings are male or female - being a Fingerqueen would be a completely different job. ;) edited by Optimatum on 6/15/2016
Regarding the “glassman” profession, I think “glasser” would work well without getting bogged down in unnecessary gendering. Rather like it’s a Monster-Hunter, not a Monster-Huntsman; or a Midnighter, rather than a Midnightsman or Priestess of St. Joshua.
This suggestion has merit. What does everyone else think? edited by Anne Auclair on 6/17/2016[/quote]
I was on the fence until someone complained it was "political correctness gone mad", which is usually a sign you’re heading in the right direction. :p
Seriously I’m not sure I can come up with anything better, but I’m glad people are talking about it & making it clear to Failbetter there’s room for improvement here.
This suggestion has merit. What does everyone else think? edited by Anne Auclair on 6/17/2016[/quote]
I would legitimately change my profession . . .
It sounds far too chavvy. Personally, I think this is politically correctness gone mad; after all, we still use ‘landlord’ and ‘headmaster’ and ‘actor’, despite alternatives existing for women, or gender-neutral terms being available. If we must change it, though, can we at least pick something that doesn’t make it sound like my character dropped out of school, wearing Burberry, to set fire to your carriage wheels?
‘You got a problem, blud?’ asked the glasser. ‘My profession is sick, inni!’[/quote]
Umm, not sure what you’re talking about. We have land ladies, headmistresses, and actresses…
Though now that I think about it, Glasser does sound rather slangy. Huh.
Again, I’d like to flog Glass Lady as the simplest solution. Yes, this would make the Glass profession the only one with two variants of its name, but as its the only title that’s gendered I think that’s fair. edited by Anne Auclair on 6/17/2016
[quote=Anne Auclair]Again, I’d like to flog Glass Lady as the simplest solution. Yes, this would make the Glass profession the only one with two variants of its name, but as its the only title that’s gendered I think that’s fair. edited by Anne Auclair on 6/17/2016[/quote]
That still doesn’t solve the problem for individuals of mysterious and indistinct gender, though. edited by aegisaglow on 6/17/2016
I like glassmeister or glasmeister. Sounds like a nice way to carry on the neath’s fine tradition of vaguely misspelled German words.
Although etymologically meister is German, probably from Yiddish, the combiningform –meister is used in English (and in German) to denote ‘a person skilled or strongly associated with something (usually indicated by the first element)’, i.e. its definition is not gender in English.
Some words with the –meister element in the English language:
schlockmeister (since the early 20C)
spinmeister (since the 1980s)
webmeister (since the 1990s)
funkmeister
gagmeister
schmaltzmeister
newsmeisters
pubmeister
Not really English words, but well known to English speakers (without accurate English equivalents):
rittmeister (since the 16C)
kapellmeister (since the early 18C)
Glassblowing was developed probably during the 1C BCE by glassmakers in Syria.
The Romans perfected cameo glass.
The next major developments in the history of glass came during the 15C in Venice.
In the 16C diamond-point engraving was practiced in particular in The Netherlands and in Germany.
Late in the 17C Bohemia became an important glass-producing area and remained important until early in the 20C.
By the 17C England was making glass in the Venetian tradition that was notable for its simplicity. Their glass was particularly favoured by the Dutch diamond-point engravers.
Enameling came into fashion in the middle of the 18C in England, leading to the development of Bristol glass.
I won’t go on because from here on it basically stays with the Anglo-Americans, Irish and French.
Anyway, my point is, glassmeister or glasmeister could have been inherited by English speakers from the Dutch, German and Bohemian-Silesian glass-making traditions.
Unlike -meister, the word meisterin does not exist in English.
Even if it did, I’m not convinced the distinction between its feminine and masculine forms would always be made in English, as English does not have such distinctions of grammatical gender. For example, blond woman or blonde woman, blond man or blonde man are all used in English, even though in French blonde is feminine and blond masculine.
In case anyone is worried that English’s indifference to grammatical gender is a modern affectation, I submit the following many examples of blond women and blonde men, from the period before and immediately after London was stolen by bats until 1900 (after which political correctness ‘went mad’):
[quote=Frederick Metzengerstein]Unlike -meister, the word meisterin does not exist in English.
Even if it did, I’m not convinced the distinction between its feminine and masculine forms would always be made in English, as English does not have such distinctions of grammatical gender. For example, blond woman or blonde woman, blond man or blonde man are all used in English, even though in French blonde is feminine and blond masculine.[/quote]
Dear me. I just thought people might be amused at the idea of "masteress". But I stand corrected. (Whoosh!)