@Hubris - You could send an email to support about it in the hopes that they’ll sort you out; I’m waiting to hear from them about a similar situation on my own part, and it’s possible they’ll help us too.
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edited by Sara Hysaro on 10/22/2017
Thanks for the advice Sara, I’ll give it a go.
Worth a try at least anyhow
What a gutpunch, my ending. My Constable also died after I let her play the game her way. I found the writing of the death very striking; once I realized how the game was going, I started to have surprisingly large feelings in my belly, and something in the description of the ‘wreckage’ of her corpse really got to me me. It’s been awhile since the RNG gave me any truly permanent consequences. These days I can normally shift my gear around and get straightforward challenges. I will admit that it does not feel good but it does feel meaningful, and I like that.
Has someone tried the "Attempt to talk the Last Constable out of this" option?
edited by Chronos on 10/22/2017
Yes. Without spoiling the choice overmuch- the story continues regardless, as you cannot sway either from this path.
I’m currently playing a lot of XCOM, so I am completely on-board with forming deep emotional attachments to a character and then having that character face perma-death at the whims of the RNG. I think the thing that reflects well on Fallen London is the fact that some choice make me honestly hesitate, even though the only stakes are fictional (although I wasn’t staking a Feast companion). I had to stop and think deep and hard about both myself as a player and my character several times before proceeding, and I felt the story earned that.
I think that, altogether, the issue that people are discussing comes down to expectations. A game sets certain expectations about how it operates, and when it violates those expectations that’s when we feel upset. That’s why people don’t get upset about gambling and losing Fate-acquired items in Seeking, but they do in free content: Seeking set the expectation that that sort of thing.
This story is pushing the boundaries compared to most content that has come before. In particular, the player is in the position where they are not the protagonist of this story and where the choice of ending is not something that everyone else is placing in their hands. And by its nature, any time that you’re pushing a boundary some people are going to feel that you’re crossing a line. In other words, that their expectations (explicit or not, elocutable or not) are being violated, and that feels like a betrayal of some form.
Personally I thought this story was great. The characters were well-developed and I cared about them, and the tone and atmosphere were great, especially the mother’s tomb.
I think the current form where the player can choose to opt-in to the RNG or not is better than the original form. The player is making a moral choice, the same as many other stories, but in this case one of the choice of endings has an unknowable outcome (but it’s clear before choosing that the outcome is unknowable). For me, this is truly the mechanics matching the writing: the writing is to not intervene, to not take matters into my own hand, to not decide what the outcome is, and the actual crunch of that choice is also actually letting the chips fall where they may. This is unique, and starkly different from other stories, but it makes sense that this is the story where that happens and I felt it was in-line with what Fallen London has offered me before.
My Last Constable died too–I shouldn’t have taken chances, but I figured I should respect her wishes for fairness.
It was a rare moment in which a storylet really devastated me. Well done.
Out of curiosity - is the "reward" (for lack of a better word - an Enigma is plenty reward at times, but using the word reward for someone you like dying feels… incorrect, to me) for your chosen partner dying if you don’t have the Feast companion still just an Enigma, as someone mentioned earlier? That’s the main thing holding me back from diving head-first (or… eyes-first, I suppose, as the player doesn’t drink themselves) into the confrontation.
edited by Elimyx on 10/22/2017
So is it possible to kill the winner of the contest if the player sided against them?
I agree - having a "golden ending" where your chosen ally survives and you remain good friends with no negative narrative repercussions attached cheapens the tragedy - particularly if that ending is available only to some players, but not the others. And locking it behind RNG instead of Fate does not help; if anything, it only makes the experience worse.
To preserve the integrity of the story and its characters, there should be no golden ending. No "and then they lived happily ever after, catching up with each other via infrequent opportunity cards". Not for premium payers, not for those who won the RNG lottery. With that in mind, I beg you to add narrative repercussions to it. Whatever happens (maybe your ally avoids you because your face brings too much pain back, maybe they’ve realized that you stood by and were prepared to let them die, maybe they’ve taken up seeking the name), the outcome where your chosen ally wins without cheating should still feel like a clear loss.
So they’d be mad if you rigged the game in their favor and also mad if you didn’t? :P
It doesn’t have to end with them necessarily being angry - The Last Constable could caused a bloodbath of a gang war to erupt after the Cheery Man’s death and exile herself in shame, and if the Cheery Man won he could have ended up invoking the wrath of the Special Constables his daughter used to work with. There are plenty of ways the story could have ended without having a golden ending that’s hidden behind RNG.
edited by The Stranger Man on 10/22/2017
I think I realized why, aside from some big speedbumps in the narrative that struck me as unconvincing and forced, this story just particularly rubbed me the wrong way. This is just me, but I prefer there to be literally any "sweet" with my bitterness. If I see a tragedy, I’d like it to be at least beautiful. This one’s just utterly pointless. Nothing is learned by any surviving parties. Nothing is gained by anyone for having this experience. Someone will die. Everyone is hurt. That is that, and nothing more. I can’t even really feel sad for it? It’s just a dull, nihilistic inevitability.
See: The Presbyterate Adventuress in Sunless Sea. Her storyline? I liked that. She dies in the end, yes. No, it doesn’t kill the Vake. But she dies a goddamn hero to the nuns, having made a mark on the Vake. I felt like I got something out of that. This just felt like "welp, life’s crap and then we die. The End." Even for the "good" ending. And maybe I feel like that’s true, especially after a year like this, but I’d rather my escapist media be SLIGHTLY more optimistic (or at least edifying) than a major depressive disorder.
But most of all, I definitely think it was harmed greatly by the long wait building up expectations and making people imagine theories for how it will end. I think building up expectations can be especially rough for a downer ending where there is no light or hope.
After my initial reaction, I gave myself time to think it over carefully…
and I still think it’s a terrible story, and terrible design in general.
For starters, there isn’t really a distinction between paid content and free content where paying players are concerned. We aren’t paying for standalone artworks, we’re paying for one-time upgrades to our individual player profiles, one profile at a time. If something hurts my profile, I do in fact suffer monetarily even though the problematic storylet might have been "free". If I buy a house and then someone builds a sawdust board factory next to it, it sucks. If I buy a house from you and then you build a sawdust board factory next to it, it’s even worse.
Now, it’s pretty obvious that trying to ensure every paying player is happy every step of the way is counterproductive and actually achieving said goal is impossible. Luckily, we have a mechanic that patches the problem; it’s called Fate. There’s already plenty of precedent in the game for giving paying players better outcomes, retries, takebacksies and whatnot. Evere single Exceptional Story can be reset for Fate.
I’ve seen people bring up other "tragedies", mostly the Comtessa, but also the Cheesemonger and USFiG.
The Comtessa you don’t even meet while she’s alive, you don’t develop a relationship with her. It’s an effective story of body horror. The Comtessa herself was just a pretty face and an empty head, one of many in London, and you can even marry her exact likeness but improved in all other aspects.
The Cheesemonger is a character whose death I’m actually sad about. However, the way the story is designed, if you like her and help her, it’s over in about a day; there’s no more content. And if you were stringing her along and betraying her for faction favors and making use of her cards, you must not have liked her very much.
USFiG is lovely, but while it can’t be reset, it does have a way to undo damage to your profile (with Fate, duh).
The Last Constable and the Cheery Man are very different from the above.
You form a relationship with one of them.
Both have great cards with multiple things to do, Airs-dependent options, other characters to meet, etc. Especially in the case of the Constable, some players lost access to said card and were hoping to regain it.
Finally, a golden ending does exist, it’s just at least 50% of players won’t get it, because hahaha serves you right b____rs, life is tough.
Except it’s not life, it’s a game. It’s a game where a song makes weasels explode and you can have a cat write a letters column (but he can’t, 'cuz paws).
I also find concerns about player dissatisfaction with having to spend Fate on resets strange to say the least, because the whole Fate system runs on the notion that you usually don’t know and shouldn’t know beforehand what you’re buying. IIRC, the first Fate purchases I made in the game as a new player were the Intimate of Devils early unlock and the two devil companions. Was that a massive waste of money? Absolutely. Did I ask for a refund? No. There are also great deals that can be considered unethical due to how great they are – the ship grinds come to mind. "Spend hundreds of dollars’ worth of your lifetime, or spend $5, your choice."
TLDR this is a really, to put it lightly, inopportune moment to invoke "artistic integrity" or worry about potential buyer regret. Please let me spend my money. Kthx.
edited by Aniline on 10/22/2017
I think there are some ethical issues with a Reset that have gone unmentioned. When you reset an Exceptional Story with Fate, the most you can do is make different decisions. You might want a different outcome, or you might simply might want to experience the story again and try out different things. No problem.
Here, you’d be paying 20 Fate to do another roll of the dice. And presumably, if the dice go against you, another roll, and another roll, and another roll… That would be a very cheap, emotionally manipulative way of milking players and I’m glad they aren’t doing it. It’s decisions to refrain from such behavior that make FB a nice company.
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edited by Anne Auclair on 10/22/2017
Locking the best outcome behind the roll of the dice is the problem. Without a reset, it arbitrarily divides the playerbase into "haves" and "have-nots", creating unnecessary resentment. With the reset, it turns a legitimate instrument into a problematic gambling machine.
I know that it’s an unpopular sentiment in the current Mayoral climate, but the RNG needs to go.
(If the RNG remains, the Fate-reset can still be implemented alongside with a slightly more expensive option that straight up lets you pick an ending of your choice. I know at least four people who would gladly pay 50+ Fate to get the rare failure outcome where the pair gets buried together)
edited by Passionario on 10/22/2017
I’m perfectly happy for either or both of them to die. The only reason I’m not going to go through with it is because I want to keep the Cheery fella’s card.
I’ll play it on an alt instead, and she can laugh at the stupidity of whichever one dies.
That, if anything, is an argument for saddling the current ‘happy’ ending with negative repercussions. RNG should not be permitted to rob players of the chance to experience true tragedy and the emotional impact of a permanent outcome. Everyone should be able to revel in the loss, not just the randomly chosen 50%.
That, if anything, is an argument for saddling the current ‘happy’ ending with negative repercussions. RNG should not be permitted to rob players of the chance to experience true tragedy and the emotional impact of a permanent outcome. Everyone should be able to revel in the loss, not just the randomly chosen 50%.[/quote]
If I can’t have it, nobody shall!
If the Marvelous ends up being a literal 1:7 luck check, I’ll say "Told You So".
edited by Passionario on 10/22/2017