Correcting myself here – the Etemenanki, the ziggurat of Marduk in Babylon, was rebuilt in the 6th century BCE, but it was probably first built as early as the 14th century BCE, according to Wikipedia. This doesn’t impact my earlier surmises, but I hate putting wrong things on the internet without correcting them. ;)
If I may be permitted, a bit of musing on the second city, and why it seems to upset the Masters so:[li]
It seems that every so often, on a rather regular schedule, the Masters rise from the 'neath and steal a city.
It seems that the criteria on which this city is chosen are that it
A) Be the capitol of the most powerful empire in the world at the time (thus why the Pope’s letter implicitly acknowledging the Holy Roman Empire’s submission to the Mongol empire shifted the Masters’ target)
and
B) that its fade away from the world stage will cause the empire to fall.
Love is the instrument through which the masters gain their cities, but it seems that love is not what they want from the cities.
Instead, it seems that it is the very significance of the city that feeds them (or feeds the bazaar, or fuels its journey). If "importance" can be thought of as an actual substance, as a food, they need to feed on a city so important that empires will fall for its loss.
So consider, then, Amarna.
When the masters poked their head up from the 'neath for their scheduled city-swiping, they would be entirely correct in surmising that Amarna was, indeed, the center of the Kemetic empire.
But, as we (and history) have established, Amarna was a weird capital. It had only been established less than a lifetime ago, by a mad king’s folly, and without him to hold it together, it would be abandoned just as quickly. Its loss would not spell the end of the empire, in fact its continued existence was more likely to doom them. Freed of Amarna (and Akhenaten), the Egyptians would in fact be better off.
It had all the indicators of being an important city (after all, it sat at the heart of the empire), but none of the substance. Underneath all the usual pointers, it was an aggressively unimportant place.
It was a false meal. The Bazaar bit, and yet came away starving.
Perhaps the Sisters knew this, and knew they were setting up the Masters to bite a wax apple. That as soon as the Masters took their worthless city, the Capitol would be moved back to Thebes and the empire would continue, robbing the Bazaar of sustenance.
And maybe that’s why the Bazaar lingered there so long: having taken their shot and come up empty, the Bazaar lacked the power to continue its journey and take another city.
Which leads us to the "Feather-Wearing Heathens" that the sisters spoke of, who ruined the plan. Weren’t the Mayans fond of feathers?[/li][li]
edited by Beli Yaal on 2/9/2014[/li][li]
edited by Beli Yaal on 2/9/2014
Similar thoughts have occurred to me. I feel fairly certain that
the “feather-wearing heathens” are, indeed, the folks from the Third City, very likely Red Bird, the Serpent-Handed, and the Mottled Man.
I thought of a better analogy: The Bazaar eats the Beating Hearts of Empires. The Pharaoh’s Daughter fed them a Tumor instead.
The Circumcellion Order died out in the fifth century, but they still wander the Sunless Sea. Is it possible that they were preserved in one of the Fallen Cities?
[li]
[quote=Snowskeeper]The Circumcellion Order died out in the fifth century, but they still wander the Sunless Sea. Is it possible that they were preserved in one of the Fallen Cities?
[/quote][li]
Interesting thought, but if the Amarna hypothesis is correct and our most basic assumptions about the Third City bear out, they sit right in the middle of an enormous gap in, ah, municipality larceny. Given the number of largely unexplored islands in the vast zee, I do wonder if cities were all that the Masters stole, or if they went after smaller prey after their humiliation in the Second city. My reading has usually been that the Neathy Circumcellions were just nutcases that revived the cult after martyrdom became less permanent. Sort of a mortification of the flesh in the extreme…
Heaping another piece of evidence for Amarna on to the pile. ‘The Hand of Aten’ has been mentioned. Given the history of Atenism, can it be anything other than Amarna?[li]
Where did that come up? Does this have anything to do with one of the options at the far end of the Lilac in Black content?
Where did that come up? Does this have anything to do with one of the options at the far end of the Lilac in Black content?[/quote]
It certainly has something to do with one of the options in the Lilac in Black! I echoed it here in this journal as it was IC for my character to answer Lilac.
Also curse my fingers for typing ‘third’ instead of ‘second’ due to listening to a conversation some friends of mine were having at the time!
Quite interesting piece of evidence. I gave the same answer, but in my rush to get the tattoo I forgot to echo it. It is curious who the two other character mentioned are: the ruler of the Fifth City and the lover of the ruler of the First One.
If we’re going to assume the Hand of Aten is the Duchess’ husband, I think it may hint that something happened to them that changed their bodies in such unfathomable ways. And here I thought it was the Consort who was changed since he had to be brought back from the dead. Maybe the Empress had to give something up, beside the city of course, so the Consort could live?
This makes me curious about Yesterday’s King and the Widow and what’s going on with them.
Given that Akhenaten means (according to the mighty, always-right, never-wrong Wikipedia) "Effective of Aten," of which "Hand of Aten" seems a decent paraphrase. As best as we know, from one of the visions, the "king" rather screwed things up but the daughters cleaned up the mess. That could make Akhenaten
the Vake / Mr. Veils
On a possibly related note, one of the rewards at the end of the Lilac in Black storylet requires "A Sultan’s Dream." Does this ring a bell to anyone? Given the look of the SMEN option, my understanding is that it’s not currently possible to select that option, so maybe this is a placeholder for later.[li]
edited by Trodgmey on 2/26/2014
No. Akhenaten is far too reviled to be given that reward.
Reviled by whom? The Masters? It’s known that
the Vake dates to the second city
and this could have been part of the Pharaoh’s deal. In response, the daughters could have evacuated to Thebes, hollowing out the prize for the Bazaar. The daughters certainly are hated by the Masters, but perhaps not Akhenaten himself.
[li]
I am pretty certain the Vake isn’t human, and that it wasn’t at any point.
[spoiler]Chugging Black Wings Absinthe in pursuit of the Bag a Legend ambition nets you a few visions from the Vake’s viewpoint;
"stars remember stars above below before the coldest hunting ground then called !seduced! !ensnared! a symbiote afloat our everhungry home nestled nested now in cedars cast down the benighted i will be their dragon soar and slaughter scratch in blood the memory of stars"
– this sounds more like the Vake/Veils’ origins lie somewhere out there between stars, although it’s not exactly the most comprehensible ramble. Certainly doesn’t sound much like anywhere in Egypt, anyway. "Nested in cedars" might also be referring to the First City… which comes before the Second, obviously.
"caught incarcerated caged two dozen centuries no space no space to spread my wings !unbearable! !release me! Spit venom at my judas gaolers may their kohl eyes gender worms may their bones burn in their flesh !unbearable! !release me!"
This sounds like the Vake getting mad as hell at the Second City for chaining the Bazaar and delaying its mission… but we know that the Pharaoh was the one who chained the Bazaar.
Also I’m… pretty certain there’s some reference somewhere to the Vake butchering basically all of the Pharaoh’s daughters? I think? I can’t exactly remember where it is… I might even have imagined it, but I’m pretty certain it’s somewhere. Either way, if that is a thing, then it’s probably even further evidence towards the dude being not the Pharaoh.
Also also at one point in the Super Secret Vake Identity story Veils complains that "Humans are so flimsy!" and i mean the guy’s been a space bat for a while but that doesn’t sound much like an ex-human sentiment to me
why would the bazaar uplift someone who delayed its mission massively anyway i mean c’mon [/spoiler]
[quote=Spacemarine9]I am pretty certain the Vake isn’t human, and that it wasn’t at any point.
[spoiler]Chugging Black Wings Absinthe in pursuit of the Bag a Legend ambition nets you a few visions from the Vake’s viewpoint;
"stars remember stars above below before the coldest hunting ground then called !seduced! !ensnared! a symbiote afloat our everhungry home nestled nested now in cedars cast down the benighted i will be their dragon soar and slaughter scratch in blood the memory of stars"
– this sounds more like the Vake/Veils’ origins lie somewhere out there between stars, although it’s not exactly the most comprehensible ramble. Certainly doesn’t sound much like anywhere in Egypt, anyway. "Nested in cedars" might also be referring to the First City… which comes before the Second, obviously.
"caught incarcerated caged two dozen centuries no space no space to spread my wings !unbearable! !release me! Spit venom at my judas gaolers may their kohl eyes gender worms may their bones burn in their flesh !unbearable! !release me!"
This sounds like the Vake getting mad as hell at the Second City for chaining the Bazaar and delaying its mission… but we know that the Pharaoh was the one who chained the Bazaar.
Also I’m… pretty certain there’s some reference somewhere to the Vake butchering basically all of the Pharaoh’s daughters? I think? I can’t exactly remember where it is… I might even have imagined it, but I’m pretty certain it’s somewhere. Either way, if that is a thing, then it’s probably even further evidence towards the dude being not the Pharaoh.
Also also at one point in the Super Secret Vake Identity story Veils complains that "Humans are so flimsy!" and i mean the guy’s been a space bat for a while but that doesn’t sound much like an ex-human sentiment to me
why would the bazaar uplift someone who delayed its mission massively anyway i mean c’mon [/spoiler][/quote]
[li]
I don’t think we know what kind of restrictions are placed on the Masters; there might be a reason we’re not aware of.
Er, I don’t think the Vake is the Hand of Aten; I just wanted to point that out.
[quote=Spacemarine9]I am pretty certain the Vake isn’t human, and that it wasn’t at any point.
<clipping spoiler block so I can add my own.>
[/quote]
[li]
A few things here.
I can’t lay hands on the text, but there’s a dream or a flashback to the second city where a citizen is sitting in an outdoor cafe thinking on recent events, how the "king" had a particular mad folly but the daughters corrected it with a bit of cleverness. My reading of this is that the Pharaoh was dealing "honestly" with the Masters to sell the second city, but that it was the daughters who trapped and delayed the mission. In other words, the Masters would be angry at the Pharaoh only because of the actions of his daughters, not because of what he did.
There’s also text from the Long Road destiny where I think the other masters chide Veils about his "humble origins" or something. I’m having a terrible time finding text at the moment, though.
Putting this into the context of the Aten controversy, remember that Aten, the god which Akhenaten wanted to center everything around, is the sun disk, or perhaps what the fourth city residents would have called a Judgment. (As a side note, I’m noticing a theme that aside from Vicky and Al, the regents who traded their cities for love seem to be oriented around sun worship of one form or another. Someone tell Sundance, Wyoming to be on the lookout for giant talking bats.) I’m of the opinion that the various contracts signed for the cities involved more than just the preservation of a dying loved one, but also additional wishes (most of which probably went horribly astray. Given the general loony behavior of Akhenaten, I wouldn’t be surprised if he asked for some kind of apotheosis towards the sun, which was the equivalent of making him a master, or perhaps merging him with one. The text above about the memories of stars gives me pause, of course – although it’s possible that like Chimes the Vake is not always Veils, or that Veils somehow swallowed/merged with/incorporated the Pharaoh, making him "chained."
As to the Vake massacring the daughters, I’m pretty sure that’s just a fantasy of the Vake, not a memory. And I’m assuming that if the Pharaoh did become the Vake, the transformation left him in quite an altered state of mind, leaving behind old attachments with only rage of betrayal remaining.
Again, I’m very much not sold on this theory, but I don’t think it’s completely out of line with what we know.[/li]
edited by Trodgmey on 2/27/2014
Well, she did have an empire on which the sun never set…
It seems to me to be pretty well established that Amarna was the Second City, but I’ll add another bit of evidence anyway. It was previously mentioned in this thread that one can come across "a piece of white gold, a fragment of a miniature wheel with a spoke attached." Given that the symbol used to depict the Aten was a sun-disk with downward-radiating rays of light, it’s easy to see why a nineteenth-century Londoner without an Egyptological education might mistake a broken Aten amulet for part of a damaged wheel.
Also, as a fun aside regarding all these sun-connections, the sun technically still has not set on the British Empire.
[li][/li][li]
edited by Cutlerine on 3/3/2014[/li][li]
edited by Cutlerine on 3/3/2014
Considering that the “Hand of Aten” appears in the context and company of the “Traitor Empress” and “The King with a Hundred Hearts”, which both are the names given to Queen Victoria and the Priest-King after their trades and “transformations”, perhaps “the Hand of Aten” is simply the name by which Akhenaten goes these days in the Neath, and perhaps related to a sort of transformation of his own.
Maybe the Masters reduced him to a walking hand.