I sometimes wonder what the difference is between a guide for players and a ‘items to be nerfed list’ for the devs especially on subjects like quirks where its very explicitly stated that they don’t want people “massaging” all their quirks up at the same time. I kind of wonder if speaking your ways might also lead to the destruction of their future existence. As someone who has written many guides, I gotta say more and more it feels like everytime I explain how to do something that is when it is made no longer possible to do by anyone ever again. It’s an interesting problem to have. I’m kind of morbidly curious what effects publishing such a guide might have on how quirks are gained, but then again it sounds like your method contains a lot of one-time-only aspects which probably are safe from nerfing.
I don’t think the devs are actively against players trying to raise all quirks. The way I understood it is that quirks are intended to compete against each other, so raising all would be very difficult and just not something the devs are trying to help.
That is, they won’t purposely leave a path to raise all, but alsi they won’t actively try to stop players from using such a path if they find one. At least that was my reading.
[quote=dov]
That is, they won’t purposely leave a path to raise all, but alsi they won’t actively try to stop players from using such a path if they find one. At least that was my reading.[/quote]
That is also what I read when hard cap was introduced in the forum.
As for the problem with nerfing down guides - I say we build the Forum of the Nadir where the powers cannot see and hear us.
Eh, let’s not create a "we vs they" situation.
Stuffs like the Fabulous Diamonds grind would have been nerfed even if people weren’t talking about it.
And, once you’ve raised a quirk that high, you have to be cautious with it? Are there any useful actions you have to avoid because they’d mess up your straight 15s?
Some Exceptional Stories are sprinkled with a few random binary choice that ends in "Quirk A hasn’t increased, because it is higher than 1" and "Quirk B is decreasing…"
Note that both "because you saved a cat you get steadfast and lose heartless" and "The Last Dogs Society is going to vote. Will you mess with the ballot box? Either way it doesn’t matter but you must drop one of the quirk." exists, and in a healthy quantity.
On the bright side, it did get me to worry less about maintaining quirks, but some people could hate it.
Yes and No.
Each connection item has an option especially for preventing a high quirk from being damaged. You need the proper connection item (check wiki), proper stat (250 for one of the 4 main stats. Each item demands a different stat. Yes, 250 is quite a lot). And you lose the item after that (can re-buy it from the Bazaar).
It will raise the quirk +15 cp.
3 downsides for this:
- You must have the relevant quirk at levels 12 -14. It is usually hard tto get them across the levels 10-11. Since it is that difficult to raise them above 10-11, that is the logic behind those connection items.
- You must have 250 of the relevant stat, as mentioned above
- Raising one quirk via this way lowers 15 cp of another quirk (check wiki). So if you, for instance, want to keep Subtle at level 12+ but don’t care about your Forceful - the connection items are the proper way to do this. If you need to keep them all at a high level (like our Quirky Girl here) this is not always a wise choice since it damages other Quirk in the process.
Hope I made myself clear.
Since I am worried about losing any quirk, I have to be careful about losing quirks that I can only replenish once a year. At this point, that really just includes Forceful and Subtle, since I have some way of regaining all the others. As Gonen points out, the 10-12 gap is more difficult than after you get over 12.
In case anyone’s wondering, here’s a quick rundown of my current quirk sources of recapping quirks, which is easier for me to remember than constructing a whole guide (which would go out of date as Favours are introduced, and thus I’m going to wait a bit before doing that).
Daring: use the Red-Feathered Pin quirk polisher (and lose Melancholy)
Melancholy: either Old Bones card in the Nadir (requires you to have completed the Daughter fate story) or grind out some Tears and sniff them
Heartless: borrow Moon-Pearls from the Sardonic Music-Hall singer, or since that’s very slow, use the Bright Brass Skull quirk polisher (and lose Magnanimous). Spirifers have a very easy source from selling souls in Ladybones road.
Magnanimous: Restoring souls card for being a Shepherd of Souls (fate-locked)… or alternatively, use the Entry in Slowcake’s Exceptionals quirk polisher (and lose Heartless) or a Giggling Mandrake (losing Heartless, and trying not to lose your mind immediately)
Ruthless: use the other Red-Feathered Pin quirk polisher (and lose Magnanimous)
Hedonist: use either the Ornate Typewriter quirk polisher or a Counterfeit Head of John the Baptist (and try to avoid getting shipped off to the tomb-colonies immediately) – both losing Austere
Austere: loop repeatedly through the first half of the Iron Republic
Steadfast: one of the stories in the Velocipede Squad fate-locked story increases this up to 15 very cheaply, but you can never finish the story; the alternative would be using the Antique Constable Badge quirk polisher (and losing Hedonist)
Forceful: kill a Noman violently
Subtle: let a Noman die avoidantly
So there are two that are holiday-bound, and the quirk polishers are extremely useful for another five, although that number goes down if you have convenient access to Fate-locked stuff. The quirk polishers are especially nice in that if you drop down to 14 by losing a few points, using a quirk polisher will give you 15 CP – creating a buffer of CP that you can afford to lose between 15 and 16. I don’t consider those to matter since it not possible to ever reach 16 unless you have quantities left over from before the quirk changes last year (or were exploiting a recent bug with Daring).
Getting up to 12 so you can access these methods is the most tricky thing, and probably what a guide is really needed for. As for a guide making itself obsolete by drawing attention to an "undesirable" way of playing that developers feel compelled to rebalance or remove? I tend to think of that as part and parcel of finding weird strategies or ways of playing – certainly true if there was some significant, unanticipated economic advantage that could degenerate into "the single way to play," right? It’s the developers’ job to spot those things and rebalance the game, although it’s trickier with grinding issues. In this case, I’m not so worried because:
- there are practically no material benefits to high quirks (you get some more story options occasionally for quirks at 8+, and a quicker route to menace areas for some quirks at 12+)[/li][li]capping contradictory quirks definitely runs counter to design intention ("make an either-or choice about what kind of person you are, etching into your qualities the choices you’ve made…") but I think there’s a reasonable argument that contorting yourself to keep contradictory facets of personality in tension with each other is ALSO an expressive, and arduous, roleplaying choice[/li][li]I can’t imagine this kind of thing is a high priority since it’s mostly for endgame players looking for additional arduous goals
If playing for quirks became very popular among new players, there might be cause for concern – that would mean people avoiding the usual "do what you feel" nature of quirk choices in order to hoard and carefully pipe their quirks around, murdering other characters or breaking off relationships for the sake of quirk numbers rather than story, etc. I don’t think that would be a good trend, and it might be an argument for making a guide on the forums instead of the wiki; it’s not "the best way to enjoy Fallen London" especially as a beginner, despite the fact that your choices along the way can lock you out of Subtle & Forceful gain, make Hedonist hard to get, etc. But I doubt many new players would want to QUIRK OUT and follow advice to reject both the Missionary and the Firebrand in order to get some rare non-Subtle-draining Forceful points; it’s too weird of a goal.
Oh, and I guess you could use the new way of spending Tomb-Colonist Favours at high Renown to get Steadfast… since it doesn’t even have a limited number of uses, unlike similar branches for Docks and Criminals. I’m not sure that storylet’s done being tweaked, though… since it doesn’t lower any other quality or soft-cap at Renown 50, apparently?
edited by metasynthie on 3/30/2016
Correct me if I’m wrong, but a quirk polisher should also avoid being sent to the tomb colonies and probably the Zee festival as well, right?
The Tomb-Colonies, yes – if you’ve got both Hedonist and Austere above 10, you’ll lose half of your Hedonist when you return from the Tomb-Colonies, so yes; you’d lose so much Hedonist that you’d be unable to regain it via polishers or a Counterfeit Head, and would have to wait until the next Exceptional Feast or spend Fate to get it back up. (Unless you still have access to the court or university carousels, where other Hedonist-regaining options can be found.) The "quicker" way to do this would be to temporarily lower Austere below 10 so that you can lose half of that quirk upon leaving the Tomb-Colonies, since Austere is easier to regain by visiting the Iron Republic.
If you go fishing during the Zee-festival, you can choose which quirks to lose, so presumably you’d spend some quirks that you know how to regain relatively easily, like Melancholy or Steadfast, or Heartless / Magnanimous if you’ve done A Soul Trade.
Getting a Noman will drop ALL your quirks a little, but also gives you the opportunity to raise some of the difficult-to-gain quirks (for a net gain) if you allow it to die. (More precious, IMHO, than the Elemental Secret for keeping it alive until Noman Knows 15.)
edited by metasynthie on 3/30/2016
I think you could also use a combination of Laudanum and bulk purchases from Mr. Wines too in order to get back into range of the Counterfeit Head.
Sadly, both options are capped at 10 for the Hedonist. Counterfeit Head’s option is available at level 12.
For players at court and university it is not all difficult to raise Hedonist back above 11. For those who are late players, beyond court & uni - one needs to wait till Feast of the Roes for a chance at that (a period which happens once a year!)
And A Quirky Guy!
Finally, after more than 2 years of trying to achieve this feat - I have finally reached the maximum 15 on all quirks!
Way way after Metasynthie achieved this goal (If you are still here, give me a shout).
I have started this journey, truly believing Paramount Presence was hiding beyond this goal. Like a true gambler, things were deeply in motion to stop once PP was revealed (or once Metasynthie had reached this goal, without any PP prize for her efforts).
And now, to sit back and slowly let this empire crumble.
I am tired of avoiding certain actions. Tired of spending a 60 echos item on fixing a decreased Quirk mistake.
I am now taking a picture, posting a post, and let it all take its course.