Hi Everyone, I’m relatively new to the game and hope that you can help me.
I’m currently working on becoming POSI and need to get my watchful up. I also want to get Scholar of the Correspondence because the lack of that is blocking a lot of stuff I want to do.
I’ve done six successful expeditions (three thieve’s catches, three of the deep blue heaven), but my Watchful skill is not high enough for me to have a good chance of doing any of the others. (Base Watchful is 70, 96 with items). Each expedition is costing me a fortune in actions (I use romance actions in the palace to get whispers, turn whispers into resources, so each expedition costs me about a 150 to 200 actions, and nets an insult in terms of value of return.
Is there a better way to do it?
I tried boosting Watchful by getting staff for the expedition, but failures in that boosted progress of other archaeologists, and I can’t see any way to reduce that progress. I presume I’m making future expeditions harder for myself.
I also tried other watchful activities, but they all gave nightmares on failure, and getting rid of nightmares costs a large number of actions too.
My persuasion has gone from 100 to 115 to get my Watchful up five measly points. There must be a better way. What am I missing? Can anyone help?
Incidentally, am I right in saying that I need to get to the Tomb of the Seven to progress the scholar of the correspondence line, and that the rivals have a 50% chance of making progress no matter what you do?
Thanks in advance for your help and advice.
(edited to correct number of expeditions done)
edited by RandomWalker on 12/9/2013
You don’t need to worry about rival’s progress or failures while "getting staff for the expedition" except within a particular expedition. You’re not making things harder long term, just failing a check.
Never buy supplies with echoes. The math works out such that as long as you’re doing the better expeditions, you’ll on average make cash if you buy supplies with secrets, but will have to get very lucky to make $$ if you spend echoes.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the Thieve’s Cache once you’ve gotten your Archeologist score high enough to do other expeditions.
I’d recommend grinding this way: http://community.failbettergames.com/topic4344-grinding-watchful-and-persuasive.aspx#post39505
Use that system there to grind watchful and with patience you’ll make decent cash and get your watchful up to a decent score, while also getting various other things you need for grinding in the forgotten quarter. If you also run the Deranged Medium quest through the Implacable Detective’s Business Card, going to the nightmare-land will also turn into a way to make $$$ rather than a simple loss of actions.[li]
edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy on 12/9/2013
Thanks very much for your reply - I’ll give it a go.
Good luck! The forgotten quarter as a whole is very variable - the rewards are so random that there’s a feast-or-famine quality to grinding it. Just stick with it though and it’ll pay out significantly in your favor eventually.
I did the Tomb of the Seven at about the same level of Watchful as you did without any problems. There are a few airs-based events that show up that give you free progress, without anything for your rivals… obviously there’s some luck to it, but even if you only get one or two they are still a big help. I try to have about 150% of the required supplies whenever I go on an expedition.
For getting secrets, I like to just spam everything in Seeking Curios in the Forgotten Quarter. You’ll probably end up in the Mirror-Marshes a few times, unfortunately, but Investigate the Darker Corners gives you something like 150-200 secrets, and Wander the Quarter and See the Sights both give Eyeless Skulls on a rare success, which you’ll need at least one of.
[quote=RandomWalker]I also tried other watchful activities, but they all gave nightmares on failure, and getting rid of nightmares costs a large number of actions too.[/quote]Have you tried "Meeting the Topsy King" in the Flit? Watchful 96 should give you 86% chance to get 66 x Whispered Secret and Watchful +2 CP, and a 14% risk of only getting Watchful +1 CP, 4 x Cryptic Clue and Nightmares +1 CP. That’s how I got a lot of my pre-Scholar of the Correspondence expedition supplies. Do you have Connected: Urchins 5+ and Connected: The Widow 5+ so you can draw the "A familiar face by the school railings" card and side with the Urchins for Nightmares -3 CP? That’s how I avoided having to buy laudanum. But you can buy laudanum! It’s quite effective before you’re a PoSI. You can rob the drunk, anonymous wretch in Spite if you’re somehow out of money to pay for laudanum. Can’t take that many Actions, can it?
[quote=RandomWalker]Incidentally, am I right in saying that I need to get to the Tomb of the Seven to progress the scholar of the correspondence line, and that the rivals have a 50% chance of making progress no matter what you do?[/quote]Apparently there’s a dream card that can give you a Scholar of the Correspondence 1, but it’s rare enough that I didn’t wait long enough for it. And if you go with "A cautious approach" you should only increase Rivals’ progress every sixth action on average. So even without "A sign?" or two you should be fine for 30 Actions, since your Rivals’ progress should only reach 6 or so. Further information on this subject can be found in this thread, some of it provided by yours truly.
Thanks for the help guys. I’m using portraiture in the palace to drop Nightmares, not a great rate of return, but meh.
My base shadowy is too high to get anything from the Topsy King, unfortunately. I could use the urchin card - I didn’t realise that negative Nightmare’s side effect…
I’m avoiding Laudanum and similar concoctions as being an inefficient use of echoes. I may have to reconsider, of course.
Thanks for the link to that thread, Gillsing - very handy.
I’ll keep seeking curios - it does seem to be the best way, and I’ve gotten to 99 Watchful far faster than I was doing before.
If you want to use but not buy Laudanum it is worth investing an a Winsome Dispossessed Orphan. You get 3 or 4 bottles every time you play his card.
Another tip which may be useful to you:
Try to gain Sudden Insights (using the investigations at the university, if you already reached it, or playing chess against a more watchful opponent.)
Then you can use them for:
-
Improving your watchful (using Invite a frient to join in something intellectual -> every stone)
-
Not to waste your precious! resources, while still having a good rate of advancement in the expedition.
To do so, use the second chance with whatever kind of approach you wish (possibly, the third). If the probability roll fails, click "perhaps not" and try again - you waste an action and a sudden insight, but no one of those 2/3 precious supplies.
(In your case, i would advise 3. Otherwise, if the option of using 2 suppliess at a time has probability greater than 90-95%, try that one without using the sudden insight. Keep them for the nadir :) )[li]
-
Last but not least, if you wish to gain sudden insights playing chess, consider that the "making waves" you gain may be used in to gain a couple points of notability (which you may use through the unsigned letter card to improve your stats. Or gain a 2nd tier job).
edited by Mizr. Edlaine Saphburgh on 12/10/2013
[quote=Andrea Serafini]Another tip which may be useful to you:
Try to gain Sudden Insights (using the investigations at the university, if you already reached it, or playing chess against a more watchful opponent.)
Then you can use them for:
-
Improving your watchful (using Invite a frient to join in something intellectual -> every stone)
-
Not to waste your precious! resources, while still having a good rate of advancement in the expedition.
To do so, use the second chance with whatever kind of approach you wish (possibly, the third). If the probability roll fails, click "perhaps not" and try again - you waste an action and a sudden insight, but no one of those 2/3 precious supplies.
(In your case, i would advise 3. Otherwise, if the option of using 2 suppliess at a time has probability greater than 90-95%, try that one without using the sudden insight. Keep them for the nadir :) )
[li]
-
Last but not least, if you wish to gain sudden insights playing chess, consider that the "making waves" you gain may be used in to gain a couple points of notability (which you may use through the unsigned letter card to improve your stats. Or gain a 2nd tier job).
edited by Mizr. Edlaine Saphburgh on 12/10/2013[/quote]
[/li]
[li]Thanks for the tips. I’ve been using the first option during expeditions, as the rivals are faster than I am when taking the second option (without using insights, at least). I may farm insights as you suggest and use them strategically.[/li][li]
[/li][li]I must admit I have absolutely no idea what use making waves is. There is a way to convert them into something before they drop to zero each week? I’m a rat catcher at the moment (the weapon is useful), but have never seen any opportunity to ‘upgrade’ my career. I have no points in notability and haven’t heard of it.
[/li]
Notability is POSI and used to upgrade your profession, you can also use it to boost your stats or get a surprise package (bundle of oddities)
MAking waves has fundamentally 2 uses:
-
Notability, notability, notability. In order to have 3rd, 4th, or (in future) 5th tier professions, you need to have a certain amount of notability. To convert mw to notability, you need the card of the slowcake amanuensis, or have mw15 and call it from your lodgings. I would advice you to have Bizarre, Dreaded and Respectable as high as possible (i would say, at least 12-13 if you wish 3rd tier, 16+ if you wish 4th tier)
-
A second (distant) use is to Laugh off your scandal. You need mw 15, and scandal will drop to 0. (together with a huge loss of mw). I advice to use this one only if you gain mw “incidentally”, as in the court or because you need second chanches. Otherwise, you need a lot less action to drop it from 7.7 to 0 “normally” than to grow your mw to 15.
[quote=Andrea Serafini]MAking waves has fundamentally 2 uses:
-
Notability, notability, notability. In order to have 3rd, 4th, or (in future) 5th tier professions, you need to have a certain amount of notability. To convert mw to notability, you need the card of the slowcake amanuensis, or have mw15 and call it from your lodgings. I would advice you to have Bizarre, Dreaded and Respectable as high as possible (i would say, at least 12-13 if you wish 3rd tier, 16+ if you wish 4th tier)
-
A second (distant) use is to Laugh off your scandal. You need mw 15, and scandal will drop to 0. (together with a huge loss of mw). I advice to use this one only if you gain mw "incidentally", as in the court or because you need second chanches. Otherwise, you need a lot less action to drop it from 7.7 to 0 "normally" than to grow your mw to 15.[/quote]
Many thanks for the replies, Lady Ciel, Andrea Serafini.
I think I have just about everything I need for POSI now, just need to grind out the opportunity cards, buy a velocipede and work out how long I can put up with this silly Eyeless Skull before giving the Cave of the Nadir run a go.
No idea how to raise bizarre or dreaded above 1 at the moment, but I’ll dig around.
Most BDR comes from POSI items which you will find in your expanded inventory as you get them. Then there are some clothing, weapons and pets that give 1 or more BDR points.
When is it appropriate to try for the Cave of Nadir?
I’m at about Watchful 120 with gear and I suspect I’m going to be overpowered for it (assuming I don’t have to play chess with Virginia, which SpaceMarine’s guide says needs 200 to be straightforward). I was at about Watchful 100 when I opened the route, but my Archaeologist wasn’t high enough and I’ve been spending some time in the University to break the tedium of grinding for skulls.[li]
You can start building Watchful as soon as your feet hit the ground, and save all the Whispered Secrets you ever get hold of. And to progress the card-based storyline that gives you the route to the cave, you may want to spend Second Chances and "Perhaps not" when you fail, to make sure that you get a point of progress every time you’re given the chance. I chose to just fail when the challenges were too difficult, so I didn’t progress as quickly as I could have. But I also didn’t have the rest of the requirements covered, so it wasn’t that important. I got it done when it was time.
When you get Watchful 60+ you can start getting Expedition Supplies. You’ll need to do several expeditions to build your Archaeologist skill to 5, and for the sake of speed I’d recommend five "Thieves’ caches" to get to Archaeologist 3 (after the initial point that starts off the skill, which also costs Whispered Secrets). Then the "Tomb of the Seven" to become a Scholar of the Correspondence so you can get into the University as a guest lecturer and start collecting Whispered Secrets a lot faster. Depending on if you wish to experience the first batch of content you may want to hold off on forming your own department. Before the investigations that are unlocked with your own department the best way to get Whispered Secrets is also the safest, since you suffer no menace when you fail: A stroll around the quad
After getting into the University it’s time to do four expeditions to "A Shrine of the Deep Blue Heaven" for +2 CP to Archaeologist per trip. Then you’re ready for the Cave of Nadir.
EDIT: Any challenges on the way to the Cave of Nadir can be handled with Second Chances and "Perhaps not" if you fail. And since you can get more Second Chances if you run out, you only need Watchful 60, though 84 is nice for 100% success with "A cautious approach". But yes, doing all the preparations brought my Watchful up to 120+ before I actually could set out.
edited by Gillsing on 12/11/2013
Thanks for the answers, they were very insightful. Any recommended numbers for Supplies, Watchful, and second chances before embarking for the cave?
I got very lucky with skulls over Hallowmass and tried it with watchful around, I think, 120 and about 90 supplies, which should on average let you consistently take a bold approach without worrying about using second chances.
Chess with February on the other hand, I spent a pretty sizable number of sudden insights on. Using the same perhaps not-ing out trick that others have mentioned for saving supplies also means you hardly need the challenge to be straightforward to get through it, given enough actions and second chances.