Salvation Denied
Posts: 30
12/21/2014
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So I have just finished the bit of fate-locked content, and I must say I am rather annoyed at the ending. Basically I paid to have a lucrative and repeatable string of storylets closed. I know you can restart certain other bits of fate-locked content, but I see no option for this one. The worst part of it is that I spent a great deal of actions to close this off, with no warning of any kind that this could happen. I do not know if there is any solution for this, or for that matter if anyone really cares that I am perturbed about the issue. Slightly angry really, would be more fitting. I kind of feel like I have been punished for paying for a storyline. This is further infuriating given the 100% lockdown on fate related issues. I certainly understand keeping the lid on plot points, detail, and to some extent reward, but some kind of notification or forewarning about this sort of complete loss of content would have been appreciated. Oh, and it also changed by alignment in regards to Empire's Kingmaker, about which I am very miffed. I enjoy oppressing the people, not everything I do is overt and a change of this kind should be heralded by an indicator or a warning. Not all stories and actions which would realistically affect one another do, such as plotting against the Masters and aligning with them via Kingmaker. In this situation there was no mention of a connection and now my character's scheming and allegiances are all askew.
Highly annoyed and slightly angry,
-Salvation Denied
edited by Salvation Denied on 12/21/2014
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Rackenhammer
Posts: 354
12/22/2014
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Honestly, after so many storylets in which an attempt to be virtuous only seems to make things worse, or to give no sort of reward, I'm more amused than anything else at a tale of villainy foiled by the unexpected virtue of NPC's.
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"DO NOT TRUST HAPPY ENDINGS. DO NOT FEAR SAD ENDINGS... NEITHER ARE ENDINGS."
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Mathieu Psmith: The Bard of Lost Children, loving husband, and a fixture of the artistic set. Can never resist making a show of things...
Irene Psmith: Adopted Daughter of Mathieu. Specializes in Information, Acquisitions, and the Acquisition of Information.
Vaughan Montblanc: Once a frontiersman of Western Canada, he now practices medicine in London. His discretion may be absolutely trusted.
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
12/23/2014
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Personally, I do tend to play cautiously, and explore all possible outcomes thoroughly before committing myself to a decision. So, generally, I do appreciate warnings about where content leads.
At the same time, I did think the "reform from within" ending to that story was entirely appropriate - better than I would have expected, even. The choice at the heart of the story seems to be to be simple: does one approve of the Squad's violent, corrupt methods? If yes, one stays with them and continues to profit. If not, one tries to stop them from using those methods.
In game mechanics terms, I can see only two ways of representing the latter outcome - either locking off the Velocipede Squad carousel entirely, or creating an entirely new one, only available through that story thread, entirely made up of peaceful, law-abiding Velocipede Squad activities. Such a carousel would, presumably, be less Dangerous and less profitable than the one it replaced - in other words, it would be entirely pointless to play.
I don't like to tread on others' heacanons, but the assumption that reforming the Squad would mean retaining their present profiteering while somehow restructuring them to give the player greater power and influence... well, it seems rather unlikely. If that were a possibility, why would the option to leave them as they are even exist? It would presumably only be taken by those who are entirely unscrupuous but also entirely unambitious.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Rackenhammer
Posts: 354
12/21/2014
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Salvation Denied wrote:
As I stated in my original post, my intention was to reform the squad so that I could have more control over it. There are several different actions in FL that let you commit a seemingly good act for personal gain, such as helping old women into carriages so that you can rob them.
Yes, but most of those options actually spell out that you're doing it for personal gain. If there was an option to take over the squad for yourself, it would have been spelled out. When one is writing a long storyline, it is often not possible to anticipate all the in-character reasons for taking particular actions.
Your own reasoning, while well thought-out in its own right, is not likely to have occurred to everyone, and more idealistic motivations would be the reason why more would choose to reform the squad. Remember, Victorian London was just as sentimental as it was cynical; and virtue would sometimes triumph in spite of itself. It is a mistake for the villainous to assume that their intrigues will always turn out the way they planned...
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"DO NOT TRUST HAPPY ENDINGS. DO NOT FEAR SAD ENDINGS... NEITHER ARE ENDINGS."
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Mathieu Psmith: The Bard of Lost Children, loving husband, and a fixture of the artistic set. Can never resist making a show of things...
Irene Psmith: Adopted Daughter of Mathieu. Specializes in Information, Acquisitions, and the Acquisition of Information.
Vaughan Montblanc: Once a frontiersman of Western Canada, he now practices medicine in London. His discretion may be absolutely trusted.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
12/21/2014
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The storylet does kind of spell out exactly what's going to happen.
I get that you wanted to reform them and lead them, but that's just not possible. A squad which is it's own authority is inherently corrupt.
Besides, you came in as just a copper. They're not going to make you in charge of the thing just because you uncovered its corruption and nothing in the text suggested it might.
It sounds like you made up your mind what was going to happen with the game and are upset it didn't.
The Velocipede Squad carousel isn't that profitable. It's about as profitable as the Foreign Office. There are far superior money making options.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
12/23/2014
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Personally I think there is already too much warning about what happens with storylets.
It seems every option these days has to tell you exactly what's going to happen, what the reward is going to be and an extra warning in case anything bad might happen.
It's too much metagame and it distracts from story. Moreover, it turns the game from a story based game into a resource management.
It was also one of those things that made you think twice because your actions had consequences. From choosing the Devils or the Constable to making a decision in the University investigation. Whatever decisions you make was one you had to live with.
And sometimes that regret was part of the inworld experience.
It used to be if you were really worried about what would happen, you'd search the wiki or ask around the forums or just learn to live with sub-optimal rewards in favor of in-character choice.
Not getting precisely what I want and, sometimes, not knowing what I'm going to get, is one of the things I enjoy about the game.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
12/24/2014
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Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
At the same time, I did think the "reform from within" ending to that story was entirely appropriate - better than I would have expected, even. The choice at the heart of the story seems to be to be simple: does one approve of the Squad's violent, corrupt methods? If yes, one stays with them and continues to profit. If not, one tries to stop them from using those methods.
I don't think it was ever that simple. Obviously their methods are bad. But they probably stop more crimes than commit and they are the most competent police unit the Neath has (not counting the guys who work directly under the Masters, but those stop only very certain types of crime). Also they did start with good intentions, they just became corrupt because of the environment. So the question is, do you leave them be to do their job, or do you interfere with them, knowing that it will cause more crime to go unpunished and that even if you replace the Inspector and some policeman, you can not replace the environment the squad works in.
I do agree that the ending is appropriate. But I don't think the game prepares you enough for that sucker punch (there are other places where it will warn you that consequences will be severe and they are not, or at least you get a skill check to mitigate), the punch is quite heavy (losing that carousel hurts a lot and it is permanent, not even Mr Eaten does such things often), and when you pay money and get sucker punched it is understandable that the person will be angry.
edited by Fhoenix on 12/24/2014
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My Character
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
12/22/2014
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
The Velocipede Squad carousel isn't that profitable. It's about as profitable as the Foreign Office. There are far superior money making options.
If you are grinding for Airag, it's a superior source of wine. Also it's the only carousel for dangerous, so if you are trying to raise your stats it's very useful. In fact lately I've been doing it more the Affair of the Box.
Nigel Overstreet wrote:
The storylet does kind of spell out exactly what's going to happen.
The option is called "Reform the Velocipede Squad from the inside".
According to wikipedia "Reform is generally distinguished from revolution. The latter means basic or radical change; whereas reform may be no more than fine tuning, or at most redressing serious wrongs without altering the fundamentals of the system. Reform seeks to improve the system as it stands, never to overthrow it wholesale. "
What happens is a radical and fundamental change (at least from player's point of view), that throws out the whole carousel. Yes it warns you "consequences could be severe", but saying it's spelled out is a stretch.
edited by Fhoenix on 12/22/2014
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My Character
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xKiv
Posts: 846
12/23/2014
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Fhoenix wrote:
Also it's the only carousel for dangerous,
There are dangerous options all the way through lethal prominence (and then cashing in dramatic tension for collated research in wilmot's end for, I think, 147 ppa? - assuming that you want to grind so much that you wouldn't find enough tomb colonist OP cards to cash in all the collections of curiosities), or breeding beasts (hyenas are about 131 ppa)
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
12/21/2014
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You get new options on the carousel? Are they useful?
I never finished the quest for exactly this reason. My character is not good by any stretch of word, but given a chance to improve something he is a part of, he would at least make a pass at it. Yet the option to improve the squad shuts the carousel and nothing else. It does not change London in any meaningful way, except that you lose a valuable resource. So I always treated it as a story that may have a continuation some day, and until then it's in a Limbo.
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My Character
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Salvation Denied
Posts: 30
12/21/2014
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Thank you Fhoenix, that is my exact problem. I strongly feel that I have been misled. I chose to reform the squad, not to shut it down. I actually enjoy the fact that I was part of a brutal enforcement agency. The text never mentions shutting down the squad, only that you may rework it in some manner to a different end. Further, the outcome changes other characteristics of your character without any mention or previous involvement, Empire's Kingmaker. I honestly feel that I have paid to get screwed over, rather than the story as it was presented, and I do not like that.
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Aximillio
Posts: 1251
12/21/2014
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it would be nice to actually have an opportunity to rework it, though...
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Possibly returned after a long hiatus. Please do not send live rats or tournament requests.
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Kyria
Posts: 22
12/21/2014
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I just finished the storyline with reforming the squad and I'm also really disappointed in how it ends. There was almost no story in the storyline, just a minimal amount of writing, the reward at the end was nowhere near worth the massive grind that the storyline was and it locked me out of one of the most profitable echo grinds in the game. I guess it is better than the rubbery murders thanks to the bike you get at the start, but that was the only worthwhile part of it. Not having fate-locked stories in the wiki can really screw you over. I hope I can still finish the Jack story (at the part where I have to go to Polythreme).
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Kyria
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