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Why are there no foxes in the city? Messages in this topic - RSS

Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 793

1/2/2012
Does anyone actually have an idea on this (besides the fact that foxes don't generally live in cities anyway)?

--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has begotten a star. It's... complicated.
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KatarinaNavane
KatarinaNavane
Posts: 462

1/2/2012
The only clue is the candles...

--
Storynexus sn Katarina Navane.

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Maurna Frost
Maurna Frost
Posts: 246

1/2/2012
(*puts on biologist hat* Actually foxes do live in cities; especially if there are large stretches of green-space or actual woodlands. But they've adapted quite well to city life, following the rabbits, rats, and non-native birds into urban habitat.)

'Tis possible the lack of natural light has something to do with it?

~MF
A curious Lady

--
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I greatly enjoy meeting delicious new friends and participating in deliciously exciting new adventures! Please feel free to drop a card to meet for dinner, exchange favors, give an interview, or any other activity that comes to mind. I DO particpate in exchanges requiring Fate, BUT you must contact me first; twitter, facebook, or here on the forums via PM.

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Patrick Reding
Patrick Reding
Posts: 440

1/2/2012
There's a persistent rumour that they've all been turned into foxfire candles, except for a lone phantom fox that stalks churchyards every night. But these are just stories.

More likely, it has something to do with the fact that their primary food source is now heavily armed.

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http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/Yana
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 793

1/2/2012
It's quite clearly stated somewhere that Foxfire Candles aren't made out of foxes. But maybe foxes can't stand how they smell?

--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has begotten a star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
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streetfelineblue
streetfelineblue
Posts: 1459

1/2/2012
...Foxes are all too wise to thread in the Neath? XD

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Abraham Bounty
Abraham Bounty
Posts: 251

1/2/2012
Are you implying that the Celebrated Artist's Model is not a fox?

If so sir, I am willing to discuss the matter at a time and place of your choosing. At length.

In all seriousness, my theory is that they're in the Winewound Heath. Afterall, there's far more to the 'neath than Stolen London. I mean Fallen London.

--
News in the Neath: Noted citizen of Fallen London, Abraham Bounty, has acquired six hundred and sixty six souls. Additionally rumour has it that the lion's share of those souls was from a theft of The Brass Embasy itself. We are quite certain that this portents nothing ominous for him. Well, nothing unusually ominous anyway.
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KatarinaNavane
KatarinaNavane
Posts: 462

1/26/2012
News on the foxes! When fortunate when trading Zee Ztories for partial maps, the zailor tells you: (spoilered)
'...and they say that the Neath would be brighter than the Surface, but for the mountain of glass and ash at the farthest south. That's where all the foxes went. Why do you think the candles are so-named?'
edited by KatarinaNavane on 1/26/2012

--
Storynexus sn Katarina Navane.

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Patrick Reding
Patrick Reding
Posts: 440

1/27/2012
That's more a "where" than a "why", though. Though the candles make a bit more sense now: they must be so-called because volcanic ash from this island is used in their manufacture!

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http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/Yana
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Rupho Schartenhauer
Rupho Schartenhauer
Posts: 793

2/17/2012
Patrick Reding wrote:
That's more a "where" than a "why", though.

I might've found the "why", Patrick... as this particular mystery is mentioned in connection with the Fourth City, I googled for "mongols" and "foxes". I came upon an article called A survey of the fox in Mongolian folklore and folk belief in a German anthology called Der Fuchs in Kultur, Religion und Folklore Zentral- und Ostasiens. I recommend reading the whole article, it's in English and it's fascinating. In short, the fox was a "taboo animal" in Mongol belief, an "ill-omen". The different Mongol tribes had various instructions on how to avoid foxes, how to avoid killing them, how to kill them if absolutely necessary, and what to do with their remains in the event of killing one: for example, to burn them after cutting off the fox's tail. So, this could explain the origin of the term "foxfire candles" as well as why all Neath-foxes decided to get lost after a Mongolian city arrived in the Neath. As these Neath-foxes presumably are highly intelligent, they may have even negotiated a kind of truce with the Mongols: "we'll stay out of your way and you stop going after our tails." And because there still are remnants of Fourth City population in the Neath, the foxes decided to stay hidden for now (or the "new-Neathy" foxes of the Fifth City told them about the English nobility's favourite sport...)
edited by Rupho Schartenhauer on 3/24/2015

--
Rupho Schartenhauer has killed a Master, well: most of it.
Cortez the Killer has killed a Master, definitely.
Deepdelver has begotten a star. It's... complicated.
Dr. Kvirkvelia, gone NORTH on 23/12/1894.
+20 link
streetfelineblue
streetfelineblue
Posts: 1459

2/17/2012
Wieland Burandt wrote:
Patrick Reding wrote:
That's more a "where" than a "why", though.

I might've found the "why", Patrick... as this particular mystery is mentioned in connection with the Fourth City, I googled for "mongols" and "foxes". I came upon an article called A survey of the fox in Mongolian folklore and folk belief in a German anthology called Der Fuchs in Kultur, Religion und Folklore Zentral- und Ostasiens. I recommend reading the whole article, it's in English and it's fascinating. In short, the fox was a "taboo animal" in Mongol belief, an "ill-omen". The different Mongol tribes had various instructions on how to avoid foxes, how to avoid killing them, how to kill them if absolutely necessary, and what to do with their remains in the event of killing one: for example, to burn them after cutting off the fox's tail. So, this could explain the origin of the term "foxfire candles" as well as why all Neath-foxes decided to get lost after a Mongolian city arrived in the Neath. As these Neath-foxes presumably are highly intelligent, they may have even negotiated a kind of truce with the Mongols: "we'll stay out of your way and you stop going after our tails." And because there still are remnants of Fourth City population in the Neath, the foxes decided to stay hidden for now (or the "new-Neathy" foxes of the Fifth City told them about the English nobility's favourite sport...)



edited by Wieland Burandt on 2/17/2012


All this is very interesting!

--
Twitter: @streetfelineblu
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Link to Ocelot's Enigma Ambition hint page; PM for clarification. No direct solutions provided.
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Patrick Reding
Patrick Reding
Posts: 440

2/17/2012
Great find, Wieland! If this isn't what the developers were going for, it ought to have been.

Now, I suppose the next question is where they got a boat.

--
http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/Yana
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spunweb
spunweb
Posts: 8

2/21/2012
Because the RENT is TOO DAMN HIGH.

More seriously: I think they're marshalling their forces to protect the unFallen city of Tokyo.

--
@spunweb on Twitter
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Looking for people interested in Contests of Cunning and Plant Fighting
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RageBox Alice
RageBox Alice
Posts: 112

2/22/2012
Weiland seems to have hit the nail on the head for me. The only thing I can add to this discussion is a snippet I got discussing Fallen London with others while I was a free boarder at the Royal Bethlehem. "There are no foxes in Fallen London. Why is that? Are their tails still afire?" This chimes with the Mongolian belief described.

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ladymadsci
ladymadsci
Posts: 105

2/25/2012
I have my own theory... they are disguised as cats.

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{quiet smile} behind you
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Patrick Reding
Patrick Reding
Posts: 440

2/25/2012
ladymadsci wrote:
I have my own theory... they are disguised as cats.

Doubtful. Cats have an excellent sense of smell. They could root out a canine interloper in a heartbeat.

--
http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com/Profile/Yana
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Maddyanne
Maddyanne
Posts: 67

2/26/2012
I think some of them became urchins. There are a good many shape-shifting foxes in folklore and lots and lots of urchins in the Neath.

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Abraham Bounty
Abraham Bounty
Posts: 251

2/26/2012
True. There are a large number of shape-shifting foxes in folklore. Admittedly they usually take the forms of beautiful high-society women (whatever that means for the culture the folktale comes from) rather than filthy urchins (or cats), though I suspect this says more about who is writing and reading the folklore than about shape-shifting vixens.

--
News in the Neath: Noted citizen of Fallen London, Abraham Bounty, has acquired six hundred and sixty six souls. Additionally rumour has it that the lion's share of those souls was from a theft of The Brass Embasy itself. We are quite certain that this portents nothing ominous for him. Well, nothing unusually ominous anyway.
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Armand D'Alterac
Armand D'Alterac
Posts: 37

1/3/2014
One thing many people seem to have overlooked is that 'foxfire' may not relate to foxes at all.

'Foxfire' on the Surface is the name given to the bioluminescence produced by certain species of fungi. The name may not have anything to do with foxes: it is thought to be derived from the Old French 'fols', meaning 'false', so 'False Fire'.

However, the Wikipedia article concerning this matter does note that foxes have traditionally been associated with the foxfire in other cultures and folklore, particularly Japanese (where for obvious reasons the word wouldn't be 'foxfire' anyway).

--
Excerpts from a Frenchman's journal
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Dolan
Dolan
Posts: 296

1/3/2014
One thing that seems to have been overlooked so far is Mr. Eaten-Sacks's robe is trimmed with foxfur. And we know who Mr. Eaten used to be.
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