telgalad
Posts: 2
8/30/2012
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Hey all, love the fact that i got into the most recent beta event. Quick question on worlds and legality. As soon is I heard about the beta, I immediately started drawing up a world for X-men. However, i then realized that this might not be legal, does anyone have any idea about this? is making worlds for things like x-men or lord of the rings legal?
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Nigel Evans
Posts: 212
8/30/2012
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Hello there. You're talking about fan fiction. We talk about that in the Creator Guidelines. There's a link to those at the bottom of every StoryNexus world, so take a look.
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telgalad
Posts: 2
8/30/2012
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Ah, thank you very much. Just to be sure, it says that fanfiction is allowed as long as we don't make any money off of it(or get approval from the creator in writing) and we have to listen should the creators ask us to take it down. Am i correct in this?
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Nigel Evans
Posts: 212
8/30/2012
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It's a little more subtle than that. I don't want to repeat the section of the guidelines, but the key thing is that you can't do fan fiction if the creator objects. Many (but not all) creators don't object to fan fiction if it isn't monetised. But it's your responsibility to find out what the situation is.
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Hierophant
Posts: 782
8/30/2012
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A polite and humble suggestion: as a player, I'm way more likely to play an original game than a work of fan fiction. I think I'm not alone in feeling that way. You might try creating your own world; I bet it would be more exciting to write and more successful once it's done! 
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Head Writer
Zero Summer
zerosummer@outlook.com
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Nigel Evans
Posts: 212
8/30/2012
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Gordon: You're right in that the successful games on StoryNexus will most likely be the original ones. But there's room for all sorts here, and people write best what they're comfortable with. We're happy to have fan fiction worlds here.
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Hierophant
Posts: 782
8/30/2012
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No argument at all! Just wanted to be an encouraging voice for original worlds.
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Head Writer
Zero Summer
zerosummer@outlook.com
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DocTwisted
Posts: 5
8/31/2012
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Just as a quick warning, X-Men is part of Marvel Comics' copyright, which is wholly owned by Disney now...
...so I'd imagine they have a pre-templated cease and desist order ready for anyone trying to use the IP, profit or non. About the only way you could pull it off is by going satire, which is protected, but even then they might try to bury you and FBG in legal briefings.
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ZappBasker
Posts: 56
8/31/2012
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IANAL, and I don't represent X-men, but since StoryNexus is meant to involve financial gain, my personal advice to you is:
Don't bother. Writing fan fic about Magneto and prof Xavier that you just release on the internets is one thing. Building something on a platform involving monetisation is something completely different, and I would urge you to simply not go there.
But it's your call.
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Nigel Evans
Posts: 212
8/31/2012
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Note that we do not permit monetisation of any fan fiction world. That is, unless you can show us written permission from a copyright holder to make money from their works.
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Chrysoula
Posts: 40
8/31/2012
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There are X-men RPGs all over the internet. I can't see how this would be different. And fanfic is a tried and true way to get your feet wet re: creative endeavor. I can especially see it being helpful here as a framework within which to learn the platform.
And hey, once she or he is done with the game, it's just a quick name change away from being original IP!
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Lily Fox
Posts: 346
8/31/2012
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Uh, no. Intellectual Property isn't just the name. Whatever an author calls it, a story about a school of mutants which hosts a semi-secret team of mutant superheroes headed up by a psychic bald guy in a wheelchair who fight another team of mutants led by a man who can control magnetism is X-Men IP.
Now, if an X-men-esque story is intended as satire, that's Fair Use and Marvel/Disney can't do anything about it. But it's not original and the characters are still not the author's property.
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@LilyLayer4
Fallen London character: Lilith B.
Author of Maelstrom - Play - Discuss
Author of City of Phire - Play - Discuss
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ZappBasker
Posts: 56
8/31/2012
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Chrysoula wrote:
I can't see how this would be different.
The difference is that a SN game is nothing like cobbling together a story and throwing it out onto the intarwebs (=posting it somewhere).
THAT is something you do pretty much anonymously, and for NO financial gain. And so such efforts are usually completely ignored.
A StoryNexus game is something that's done for PROFIT, by a registered company (or whatever the legal entity that is FBG is called). Just because you're the author doesn't mean the X-Men copyright hounds won't rip FBG to shreds, since they're, by all practical measurements, making money off of X-Men property. And even if there's a way to make your particular SN game not-for-profit I highly suspect that's gonna make a difference, since this nuance will in all likelyhood be completely ignored by said hounds...
It's a world of difference. Hence; I really hope everyone stays away from licensed properties for their SN games.
edited by ZappBasker on 8/31/2012
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Tesuji
Posts: 161
8/31/2012
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I hope that FBG has talked this one over at length with their attorneys.
In the U.S. at least, this sort of thing would open up FBG to massive liability for contributory copyright infringement, and the degree of control they exercise over SN would mean they probably couldn't take advantage of the DMCA safe harbor provisions.
In fact, since the fan fiction section in the Creator Guidelines gives the impression that most owners tacitly accept fan fiction and that it's only infringement if the author has explicitly forbidden it, I could easily see a sued creator turning around and blaming FBG for misleading them into thinking they were okay.
Yes, the claim that a work is a transformative fair use is a defense you can raise against copyright infringement, but that's not the same thing as saying that it's a defense that will automatically work (it's had mixed results), and it definitely doesn't stop you from getting sued and having to win that argument.
If FBG really wants to be on the forefront of this war, well, more power to them, but I would expect that they'd end up spending a lot less in legal fees with a more restrictive policy.
edited by Tesuji on 8/31/2012
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Tesuji.
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Hierophant
Posts: 782
8/31/2012
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I don't think anyone from FBG has said Story Nexus is intended to be exclusively (or mostly!) a platform for revenue-generating games.
edited by levineg85 on 8/31/2012
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Head Writer
Zero Summer
zerosummer@outlook.com
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
8/31/2012
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Failbetter on deck.
Everyone - this is a very energetic thread! A couple of straightforward points to cool the temperature.
Our position
Thanks all for your concern, but we have taken legal advice. Our Terms of Service, Creator Guidelines and Takedown Policy were all reviewed and rewritten by an IP lawyer.
The advice we've been given (from a reputable City of London law firm) is that we're a platform, not a publisher, and a quick response to takedown requests makes the risk for us manageable.
If you're qualified to advise on UK intellectual property law and prepared to give us free legal advice to the contrary, go ahead. :-)
Your position as far as we're concerned
Tesuji: we do not state in the CG that it's 'okay unless the author has explicitly forbidden it', and I must ask you politely not to represent our position in that way. We state clearly that it is the creator's responsibility to determine a rights' owner's attitude. We don't forbid fan fiction outright. We do forbid any monetisation of a fan fiction world without the explicit written permission of the rights' holder. That rule is absolute.
To summarise the FBG point of view:
(i) the risk is yours, if you want to write fanfic. Some rights owners are fine with it, some are not, and it's up to you to determine which. If in doubt, contact the rights holder.
(ii) Be familiar with our Takedown Policy. Our first response to a lawyer's letter will likely to be to suspend the offending world.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
8/31/2012
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Gordon Levine wrote:
I don't think anyone from FBG has said Story Nexus is intended to be exclusively (or mostly!) a platform for revenue-generating games.
edited by levineg85 on 8/31/2012
It is not intended to be exclusively (or mostly!) a platform for revenue-generating games.
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Passionario
Posts: 777
8/31/2012
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Alexis Kennedy wrote:
Some rights owners are fine with it, some are not
Which one are you?
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Passionario: Profile, Story, Ending
Passion: Profile, Appearance
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Nigel Evans
Posts: 212
8/31/2012
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Our own policy regarding fan use of our copyright is here:
http://about.failbettergames.com/failbetter-fan-project-guidelines/
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Chrysoula
Posts: 40
8/31/2012
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Lily Fox wrote:
Uh, no. Intellectual Property isn't just the name. Whatever an author calls it, a story about a school of mutants which hosts a semi-secret team of mutant superheroes headed up by a psychic bald guy in a wheelchair who fight another team of mutants led by a man who can control magnetism is X-Men IP.
Now, if an X-men-esque story is intended as satire, that's Fair Use and Marvel/Disney can't do anything about it. But it's not original and the characters are still not the author's property.
Hi, Lily. You missed my tongue in my cheek, possibly along with certain recent literary sensations that started out as 'alternate world fanfiction' before a quick namechange enabled a whole new IP. (Also, Marvel/Disney can certainly do something about satire if they wish; most individual artists can't afford to defend themselves in court and the big IP corporations know that).
ZappBasker wrote:
The difference is that a SN game is nothing like cobbling together a story and throwing it out onto the intarwebs (=posting it somewhere).
THAT is something you do pretty much anonymously, and for NO financial gain. And so such efforts are usually completely ignored.
Actually, I think putting a game on StoryNexus is exactly like running a semi-public RPG on a forum. I mean, I'm not a Marvel lawyer but it's just a matter of automation.
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