Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
10/22/2014
|
Hi folks!
Quirks are the qualities in Fallen London like Magnanimous, Ruthless, and Hedonist which assess your character's personality. We're going to be making some changes to how they work, and wanted to lay the details out for you. We plan to make quirks more relevant and accessible; and to have Fallen London respond to them more often.
Quirks are great at:
1) Acknowledging your character's choices
2) Building up a nuanced picture of your character over prolonged play
However, we have three current issues with them. Brace for bullet points!
1) The caps on quirks have changed over Fallen London's lifespan. Newer players are very unlikely to have quirks higher than 10; more established players can have them in the hundreds.
2) Because of this, any quirk requirement tends to be inaccessible to some players but trivial to others. This means we avoid using them.
3) Increasing quirks isn't as meaningful a choice as it could be. 'At the moment, most players end up with a moderate amount of every quirk. We think it would be more interesting if your characters' quirks were a roleplaying choice -- so you could have four to six you favoured, but not the lot.
We'll be implementing three changes to address this:
1) Quirk increases will come in three bands. Easily accessible, repeatable content can increase them to 5. Less common content (like opportunity cards or the end of content strands like archaeological expeditions) can increase them to 10. One-off content (like Ambitions) or more risky content (like a laudanum habit) will allow them to rise as high as 15.
2) An increase in one quirk will tend to be coupled with a decrease in another. While some quirks will be reliably opposed (austere and hedonist, for example) most quirk changes will be situational. Sometimes increasing Steadfast will be at the cost of Subtle, other times it might reduce Ruthless.
3) Quirks will play more of a role in content. They'll act as keys to unlock new branches with alternate costs, rewards or outcomes. You may have seen some experiments with this approach in the recent Bag a Legend update. Minor branches will unlock with a quirk of 4, significant ones with a quirk of 8, and very rare exceptional branches with a quirk of 12. You won't often spend quirks. If you've worked to get a high quirk we want you to enjoy the benefits of it.
The first of these approaches will be implemented soon. Numbers two and three will be an ongoing process that we incorporate into new content and older content as we revisit it.
We will not be resetting everyone's quirks! If you've taken pride in increasing your Hedonist quality to Bacchanalian levels, fear not! Over time, high quirks are likely to trend downwards (although you'll be able to maintain your preferred quirks with careful play) but we're not going to snatch them away from you.
|
|
|
+18
link
|
Lady Red
Posts: 517
10/29/2014
|
I do get that there are issues balancing things, but all these new caps - on quirks, on second chances, on acquaintances - make the game a more frustrating place for long-term players. So many of the opportunity cards now seem to only decrease levels of things I've spent a long time building up. And it feels especially painful when a card attempts to balance things, like with the quirks - because you end up with one quirk dropping, while the opposed quirk doesn't increase because you're already at the cap. The general trend seems always to be downwards, and negative, giving players less to work for because things are capped and you can no longer be exceptional in anything.
/grumpy today.
Perhaps it could be flagged up/clearer before I play a card or branch if it's going to affect quirks, and which, so I can make a choice to preserve, or not, the quirks I have that are already high?
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
|
|
|
+8
link
|
Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
10/23/2014
|
Some responses!
any news on Halloween festivities for Fallen London this year?
Working on it right now! Expect all the content from previous years, plus some new surprises. What? What's that Scowling Flint Idol doing on my desk? Nothing at all. Ignore it. Here, I will cover it with a tea-towel.
I'd say Ruthless and Steadfast are complimentary quirks, not opposed.
They certainly can be! It all depends on the details of the fiction - this is one of the most fun things about quirks.
For those of us who have already capped every one-time story, will we be able to take advantage of this?
So players who foolishly go after such one-off content before they've maxed out their preferred quirks will get those rare capped-at-15 increases before they actually matter?
I'll bring forth one small brick from my COLOSSAL WALL OF TEXT for elaboration: "One-off content (like Ambitions) or more risky content (like a laudanum habit) will allow them to rise as high as 15."
One-off content won't be the only way to increase your quirks past 10. One-off content is where we have dramatic, character-defining decisions, so the fiction is a better fit for more drastic quirk changes. There will be other ways to increase your quirks to the top tier, but they will all have strong fictional justification.
(It's worth mentioning that higher-tier quirk changes also grant more change points of quirks. So you'll feel a benefit from them even if you aren't at the cap.)
A point that might allay some very reasonable concerns
We don't intend to hide piles of mega-sexy lore behind high-quirk branches. They won't be vital reward-grinding options. The quirk-unlocked branches represent words of your deeds getting about, and how that affects peoples' response to you. They're about about respecting your choices.
The key word there is "choice". There is a conflict between completionism and consequence. Fallen London is forgiving about letting players hoover up lore. Not only do we often provide ways to repeat or re-access content, but we put a particular piece of lore in multiple places.
There will always be a very small minority of cases where a choice will unlock one piece of content and close off another. Which ambition you chose, for example. Or which destiny or profession you chose. Some choices need consequence. But when quirks do this, the consequences won't be drastic. Quirks are great, but they're one string to Fallen London's fiddle, not the main focus of play.
Quirks are a way for the game to say "You've consistently chosen an Austere path - here is fiction that recognises that." Not "Only those with Austere 12 are allowed to learn the identities of the Calendar Council! Go away!"
Very few branches will require a quirk at 12. Quirks above 10 will mostly be about bragging rights. My current thinking is that a good place for those occasional 12+ branches would be in seasonal content, so if you miss them one time they'll be around again next year.
A note about the Iron Republic
The Iron Republic contains two Nex-locked branches that grant significant boosts to groups of quirks. To fit with the new model, thy won't be able to increase Quirks above 10. We won't be adding commensurate quirk reductions to them, though - they'll remain pure increases.
|
|
|
+5
link
|
Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
10/26/2014
|
Pretend this is orange.
Nigel Overstreet wrote:
In all seriousness, will there be any effort to lower those of us who happen to have Quirks well above 100? Will there be storylets that would, say, reduce a Quirk by half so as to reduce long time player's Quirks to more easily fit in line with those of newer players?
Nope! We know some people have made chasing particular quirks a point of pride. We don't see a need to take those away. Hopefully the new structures will allow some fun competitions, too: first person to 5, 10, or 15. First person to get a combination of quirks to a certain level, etc.
Hedonist should be a straightforward one to maintain, too, because it's so consistenly paired with Austere.
thedeadlymoose wrote:
Although, now that it's going to be hard to keep quirks up, it makes the constant quirk-decrease cards a bit of a bummer.
Expect those cards to see some changes. We will very rarely want players to spend quirks - it's always been tricky to justify fictionally.
maybe a hedonist person should turn down an invite to a Church fete, and maybe an austere person would avoid the opportunity to buy drinks for Bohemian writers.
Exactly this. Austere and Hedonist are unusual in that they are antitheses. If you're one, you're not the other.
Would it be do-able to only trigger a quirk decrease if you actually get a commensurate quirk increase? I'm guessing probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.
I mean, to take the above example, if I'm the type of person who gets drunk with poets in bars, and also goes to Church events, ...
...then I'd say you ere neither notably austere nor hedonistic.
Most quirks don't pair up like that, though. In one story you might be able to increase Ruthless at a cost of Steadfast; in another at a cost of Magnanimous. So there you're spreading the reduction across multiple quirks, while focussing the increase in one. Another approach is to have one or more quirks you don't care for. If a choice would increase Subtle and decrease Staedfast, and your Steadfast is at zero, your Subtle increase is effectively 'free'.
Why not prevent quirks from decreasing on low-level cards if it's higher than a certain level?
We considered this, but it basically works as save points for each quirk, and would make it much, much easier to get multiple quirks into the top tier. If you want to be considered one of the most hedonistic people in London, now, you're going to have to avoid dusty old church services. If you've got a quirk at 8-10, you are renowned for it. You're considered an exemplar of it. It's a big thing! And if you're in that 11-15 bracket, people probably think you're a bit crazy. That's the Byron tier: mad, bad, and dangerous to know.
Surely a sufficiently melancholic person isn't going to magically become happy after a little bit of hanging out with urchins.
Absolutely! But they might after prolonged and consistent urchin-jollity, if they're not taking other opportunities to write sad poems about daffodils. Each change to a quirk is fairly modest, now - the aim is to reflect the long-term trend of your behaviour.
|
|
|
+4
link
|
Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
10/24/2014
|
Ben wrote:
Well Nigel, would you sacrifice 90% of your quirk, for a + quirk item or destiny or some such that latter got considered "fate locked"?
I'd let all mine be set to 0, for even a +1 heartless destiny.
I think I'm a rare case. I wouldn't want to give up my stratospherical Hedonist stat for anything unless it was also a singular and unique item.
Presently, I have the highest Hedonist in the game. Narsci has the second highest by a LOT. The next highest is in the 40s.
To sacrifice that for an item anyone can get with Fate expenditure doesn't seem worth it.
I would be more willing to sacrifice my Magnanimous of 41 or my Steadfast of 22.
That might be because I put not only a ridiculous amount of gameplay into my Hedonist score, but also a fair amount of roleplay as well.
Narsci and I started it with the "War of Hedonism" at the Feast of '90. The Romantic Egotist vs The Bohemian Epicene.
It was a lot of fun to use every action possible to gorge ourselves in the tents and wake up to see how much the other had caught up while we were sleeping.
We both kept the score on our mantelpieces because it was good sport and a friendly competition.
We also ran in the same RP circles on Lj and Twitter, so it was even more fun to roleplay the endless debauchery.
We kept the sport up far longer than we should have, finally coming to a gentleman's agreement to stop around August.
To give up my high Hedonism score wouldn't just be to give up a really high number in a videogame, it would deem all that inconsequential and this reminder I have of a fun rivalry with a brilliant friend would be erased.
I'd rather that not happen for all the goats in Overdom.
However, this game is not made just for me. I have to take into account the thousands of other players and, indeed, the future of the game if it isn't receptive to new players; which I feel should be a top priority.
If having older players with crazy high stats greatly unbalances what is designed for upcoming Quirk content, then that's just one of life's inconveniences I have to accept.
I'd just like to know if such a thing is imminent.
--
The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
|
|
|
+4
link
|
Fhoenix
Posts: 602
10/27/2014
|
I think it's a good change. I do have a concern that it could create an insensitive for people to always act on a certain quirk in fear of losing it. It's mostly okay if there are repeatable options that take you back to the cap, but still. If it's very hard to go up to 15 and very easy to go down, people would naturally avoid doing Forceful things when they have high Subtle.
Also last event we had actions that depended more on RNG than on our choice. You were in a boat fishing and if RNG gave you a Forceful way to catch fish you took it, because hey, RNG. You could maybe avoid draining one quirk, but there was no way to act consistently in character.
--
My Character
|
|
|
+3
link
|
Rackenhammer
Posts: 354
10/22/2014
|
Hm, I am liking these proposed changes very much! Being able to cultivate only a few well-chosen quirks rather than have them all at low levels would very much act to sharpen my character focus.
--
"DO NOT TRUST HAPPY ENDINGS. DO NOT FEAR SAD ENDINGS... NEITHER ARE ENDINGS."
~
Mathieu Psmith: The Bard of Lost Children, loving husband, and a fixture of the artistic set. Can never resist making a show of things...
Irene Psmith: Adopted Daughter of Mathieu. Specializes in Information, Acquisitions, and the Acquisition of Information.
Vaughan Montblanc: Once a frontiersman of Western Canada, he now practices medicine in London. His discretion may be absolutely trusted.
|
|
|
+3
link
|
MidnightVoyager
Posts: 858
10/22/2014
|
For those of us who have already capped every one-time story, will we be able to take advantage of this? I burned quirks pretty hard on my failed Noman.
--
Midnight Voyager - A blood-cousin to predators. Collector of beasts. Affably mad.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Gillsing
Posts: 1203
10/22/2014
|
Gillsing wrote:
And the cap at 5, is that the usual "up to 6" where we get +1 CP until the quirk is above 5? If the increase is capped at 5, the cap for the actual quirk is still at 6. "Daring hasn't changed, because it's higher than 4"
So that's that taken care of. Now I guess everyone has 6 CPs in a lot of quirks that they might want to save, since they're apparently not going to be that easy to get back once they're gone.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
dov
Posts: 2580
10/23/2014
|
Ben wrote:
So, does anybody else think that "seeking" will be steadfast gain? I think that Seeking should increase a "Masochistic" quirk.
--
 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Fhoenix
Posts: 602
10/31/2014
|
Dabble in the Great Game in Veilgarden for Ruthless and Magnanimous. Hunting in the Docks for Subtle and Forceful. Tomb Colonies for Austere and Hedonist.
Don't remember repeatable actions for the other quirks.
--
My Character
|
|
|
+2
link
|
A B Nile
Posts: 414
10/23/2014
|
Chris Gardiner wrote:
3) Quirks will play more of a role in content. They'll act as keys to unlock new branches with alternate costs, rewards or outcomes. You may have seen some experiments with this approach in the recent Bag a Legend update. Minor branches will unlock with a quirk of 4, significant ones with a quirk of 8, and very rare exceptional branches with a quirk of 12. You won't often spend quirks. If you've worked to get a high quirk we want you to enjoy the benefits of it.
In general, I like the sound of the Quirk updated. Point 3) does cause slight concern though; unless I am misreading, it sounds as though Quirk requirements might lock one out of some story choices altogether, and more frequently than as things currently stand.
It seems to me that in the majority of stories at the moment, one can explore every branch (or at least most of them) if one is willing to put in the time grinding resources/connections etc. There are of course some one-off choices, but those are generally not resource-locked, or at any rate do not have high requirements. In other words, there are occasions where we only get to choose one branch, but we have a wide choice from all available branches.
I would be sad if things were changed so that effectively we were restricted to one choice only a lot more often than we are now. It sounds as though raising Quirks to high levels will be more difficult than it currently is, and raising opposing Quirks to high levels will be more difficult still.
Of course, "more of a role" doesn't necessarily mean "a major role", and I'm more than happy to reserve judgment until we see how things pan out, but this does ring some alarm bells for me. Perhaps a small hand-held bell rather than a fire alarm, but still...
--
My profile: A B Nile
My alt: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate
(seeking Acquaintances and accepting all social actions)
Item conversion table - finally complete with all rare successes!
Bloody, bold and resolute
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
10/31/2014
|
Right now I'm celebrating Halloween with a laudanum binge. Time to get my Hedonist quirk back in shape!
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
10/31/2014
|
Actually, I totally will do this after Hallowmas as an act of good faith that exceptional quirks will not be limited solely to one shot events. That the idea is anyone, new or veteran, can work towards the goal of having a specific reputation and attain it if by nothing else but sheer perseverance. Notability 15 for example is incredibly challenging to obtain, but little by little a dedicated character can make it a reality. Same with certified scraps items (how I covet them so). Its something you have to purposefully chose to do over and over for a long period of time. It starts to define who you are, or rather its an expression and statement of self.
It is my hope the new quirks system will be the same and that my act of destroying all that I have will not be in vain. Because I really really like the idea of building a reputation from the ground up- that if I am going to be famous/known for a certain type of behavior, that it will only be because I have chosen so and have put in the appropriate effort to give it meaning.
edited by NiteBrite on 10/31/2014
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Ben
Posts: 657
10/29/2014
|
The more I click on a card I thought I knew, and instead just see a quirk go down while getting less then I expected from it, the more frustrated I am.
I really do hope there is something that rewards us and resets quirks as an option in this holiday content.
Course I'm also a bit upset every time the card about my aunt shows up... it feels like I'm being punished for not spending the nex every time I get that instead of a card I could use... on the other hand, I don't really want it to go away forever, I might want to do that content someday, and it's not on the nex page...
--
The wind has no destination.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/IcountFrom0
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Frensus
Posts: 102
10/27/2014
|
Fhoenix wrote:
I think it's a good change. I do have a concern that it could create an insensitive for people to always act on a certain quirk in fear of losing it. It's mostly okay if there are repeatable options that take you back to the cap, but still. If it's very hard to go up to 15 and very easy to go down, people would naturally avoid doing Forceful things when they have high Subtle.
Also last event we had actions that depended more on RNG than on our choice. You were in a boat fishing and if RNG gave you a Forceful way to catch fish you took it, because hey, RNG. You could maybe avoid draining one quirk, but there was no way to act consistently in character.
I feel like that's the intent. Getting 15 in a quirk isn't meant to be easy, and should be limiting. As Chris said, 11+ means your character is a little over the top in that regard. I expect most quirk-benefits will likely be in the 8-10 range at the highest, with the rare treat for 11+ as a reward for diligence. Players will have to decide what is more important to them, the quirk or the freedom, and that makes a lot of sense.
As for the fishing in the event, I think that was the dev's way to "soft-reset" quirks in preparation for this change. I highly doubt we'll see another situation like that in the future.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Frensus
Currently targeting: NiteBrite's Fabulous Diamond Diversion (1/50), Breath of the Void (3184/3200)
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Frensus
Posts: 102
10/24/2014
|
Nigel Overstreet wrote:
In all seriousness, will there be any effort to lower those of us who happen to have Quirks well above 100?
Will there be storylets that would, say, reduce a Quirk by half so as to reduce long time player's Quirks to more easily fit in line with those of newer players?
Chris Gardiner wrote:
We will not be resetting everyone's quirks! If you've taken pride in increasing your Hedonist quality to Bacchanalian levels, fear not! Over time, high quirks are likely to trend downwards (although you'll be able to maintain your preferred quirks with careful play) but we're not going to snatch them away from you.
You should be fine as long as you don't do anything austere, and I'm guessing you have already been playing that way to avoid losing CP. I'm glad for this, it's fun and interesting if people's unique accomplishments are crazy goals they set for themselves rather than retired goodies that give massive benefits and are part of extensive sets of collectibles *glares at Kingdom of Loathing*
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Frensus
Currently targeting: NiteBrite's Fabulous Diamond Diversion (1/50), Breath of the Void (3184/3200)
|
|
|
+1
link
|
thedeadlymoose
Posts: 214
10/26/2014
|
Chris Gardiner wrote:
Some responses!
<snipped>
This actually cleared up a lot. Cool.
Almost everything about this seems really promising and fun.
Although, now that it's going to be hard to keep quirks up, it makes the constant quirk-decrease cards a bit of a bummer. And there are a buttload of quirk-decrease cards, effectively becoming trash cards if you want to keep even a reasonably high quirk (but your quirk-compatible cards are STILL trash cards because they won't increase the quirk past 5).
Basically the card setup seem designed to encourage players to just avoid playing quite a wodge of them. Perhaps that's intentional, though. I mean, it does have a certain amount of fictional justification; maybe a hedonist person should turn down an invite to a Church fete, and maybe an austere person would avoid the opportunity to buy drinks for Bohemian writers.
Would it be do-able to only trigger a quirk decrease if you actually get a commensurate quirk increase? I'm guessing probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.
But it seems a little strange that it's infinitely easier to decrease a quirk than to raise it. I mean, it doesn't really map onto real life very well. I mean, to take the above example, if I'm the type of person who gets drunk with poets in bars, and also goes to Church events, ...
...actually, hold that thought. Why not prevent quirks from decreasing on low-level cards if it's higher than a certain level? Surely my hedonist threesomes aren't up for fairly rapid emotional negation by simply attending Church events for profit reasons. (Actually, they've already been negated by going fishing, but, you know, IN THEORY.) Surely a sufficiently melancholic person isn't going to magically become happy after a little bit of hanging out with urchins.
EDIT: Snipped overlong quote.
edited by thedeadlymoose on 10/26/2014
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Eris~Jay
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Red~Rose
|
|
|
+1
link
|
WormApotheote
Posts: 725
10/23/2014
|
Gillsing wrote:
Chris Gardiner wrote:
It's worth mentioning that higher-tier quirk changes also grant more change points of quirks. All the more reason to make sure one's preferred quirks are high enough to take advantage of all those precious high tier CPs. 
It's not so much about the feeling in the moment as the feeling during the rest of the game, when one's character has a certain quirk above 10 or not. Unless of course all the quirks will get their own 'laudanum habit', which seems to be a very convenient way for a PoSI to increase Hedonist.
I think adding something like that for every quirk would be a pretty good idea, especially since the idea seems to be it'll take a lot of caution to maintain a high level quirk.
Like -1 cp subtle when you're at subtle 13 is going to be a lot more complicated to get back unless there's a reliable way to offset that, and it might not always be clear which actions will compromise subtle.
I'm also a bit concerned about how that'll work in some situations, like, for example, the Hunting Dangerous Prey options
[spoiler]Basically there's very little reason to choose Go For the Throat, since Stalk Your Prey subtly is an easier challenge, and has a lower consequence for failure, but provides the same CP of The Hunt is On. So if you're trying to keep Forceful (or is it Daring? I can't remember xP) up you're basically forced to take a worse option, and since that storyline involves repeating those actions a LOT, its a fairly significant effect in the amount of time it'll take (or the amount of quirk it ends up eating)[/spoiler]
Which could further lead to a situation where you need to avoid all the one time content until after you do that, because it'll go faster if you do that storyline first and have it eat all your quirks, and then go use the high tier quirk points to get it back.
Obviously a repeatable, if costly/risky, way to get high tier quirk points would help offset that somewhat.
--
No, I don't pull the Eater of Names.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
NiteBrite
Posts: 1019
10/24/2014
|
Ben wrote:
So, does anybody else think that "seeking" will be steadfast gain?
To be honest, this might explain why unaccountably peckish became hard capped at exactly 10 a while ago (reducing all peckishness to 10 or less). It would make a lot of sense for it to take on the 'you were very foolish' quirk mechanic role.
--
I AM currently accepting calling cards.
Stats loss counter: reset, irrigo equivalent: none
[00:34] <@ortab> NiteBrite's laugh is that of a condemned soul gazing into the abyss.
Merciless Modiste avatar by Paul Arendt (based on an original image by Joe England)
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/TheBriteModiste
|
|
|
+1
link
|
BlazingIce26
Posts: 24
10/24/2014
|
Aw, guess that means no level 69 Hedonist quirk for me ;-;
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Blazingice26 My profile, should you want to contact me and/or be generous enough to be my patron.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
thedeadlymoose
Posts: 214
10/27/2014
|
Perhaps what I'm really wondering about is the narrowing of options this means for players who enjoy the idea of quirks: it means more of the card deck gets dumped by necessity in the trash pile. (edit: though what actual percentage of the deck this is, I'm not sure; it may be smaller than it might seem.)
Perhaps that's the point: to make choices more meaningful by decreasing the number you'll want to take. Perhaps a person who does play too many cards should get a rather bland character, quirks-wise. Pick all the options, become a samey ambiguous person.
Although, I'd love to see more options like "You're a complicated person. Let her have the cab. Pick her pocket on the way past" from one of my favorite early Fallen London cards.
Perhaps this might be how a clever player might get something like "Scarlet Saint" (high Hedonist/Austere) again in the future. (if that's still a thing, maybe it's not)
So yeah, it did need re-adjustment, and I'm glad to see that you and everyone at FB care enough to bring it about. Cheers!
This! It's honestly almost strange to me how much you care about your player base's concerns, even the concerns of the tiny fraction who care enough to give feedback on the forums. Not what I expect to see, certainly. You all are pretty awesome. 
Chris Gardiner wrote:
Why not prevent quirks from decreasing on low-level cards if it's higher than a certain level?
We considered this, but it basically works as save points for each quirk, and would make it much, much easier to get multiple quirks into the top tier. If you want to be considered one of the most hedonistic people in London, now, you're going to have to avoid dusty old church services. If you've got a quirk at 8-10, you are renowned for it. You're considered an exemplar of it. It's a big thing! And if you're in that 11-15 bracket, people probably think you're a bit crazy. That's the Byron tier: mad, bad, and dangerous to know.
Just want to say that I love this explanation and description.
Chris Gardiner wrote:
Surely a sufficiently melancholic person isn't going to magically become happy after a little bit of hanging out with urchins.
Absolutely! But they might after prolonged and consistent urchin-jollity, if they're not taking other opportunities to write sad poems about daffodils. Each change to a quirk is fairly modest, now - the aim is to reflect the long-term trend of your behaviour.
Well, that's the thing. Even if this sufficiently melancholic person takes other opportunities to write sad poems about daffodils, "melancholy hasn't increased, because it's higher than 4". Then again, perhaps those poems just can't cut it anymore, and if they're truly melancholic, they'll have to go farther to counterbalance the effects of hanging out with the urchins. (Little fuckers. So jolly.) So I guess I'm answering my own question.
...Although, maybe you meant writing sad poems about daffodils is going to be the dangerous or resource-intensive way to get Melancholy to the 12+ range? Holy shit, that's actually an amazing thought. THE MOST DANGEROUS POEMS.
EDITED: to replace an accidentally deleted quote, and to correct a possible misapprehension.
edited by thedeadlymoose on 10/27/2014
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Eris~Jay
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Red~Rose
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Master Polarimini
Posts: 310
10/27/2014
|
Quirks were indeed always a strange beast, with the potential of roleplaying but with the mechanisms of a standard characteristics to grind up.
Glad it's going to change!
--
Devices workshop opening soon...
Follow my story at http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Master~Polarimini
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
10/27/2014
|
Agreed. They had to change somehow - their only real use before was people grinding them up for fun. Scrapping the existing system and implementing something consistent and fun, well, I'm all for that.
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Flyte
Administrator
Posts: 671
10/27/2014
|
Rackenhammer wrote:
Ah, that would resolve one of the issues I had with quirks, the way a major reduction tended to be paired with a slight increase with a low cap (Looking at you, Hunting Dangerous Beasts!) Thanks for drawing my attention to Hunting dangerous prey: I've reduced the Subtle and Forceful penalties on those branches to 1CP so that they mirror the increases. If anyone comes across other branches that don't seem to be behaving as they should, post here or send us an email and I'll take a look.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
thedeadlymoose
Posts: 214
10/23/2014
|
I like this change! I think quirks are really cool and it will be neat to see them become more meaningful to your character. Presently, my super hedonistic-in-theory character is apparently very Austere because, well, Hedonist was so useful to cash in. Oops.
Despite how long this post is going to be -- and full of perhaps misplaced concerns -- I think this seems pretty excellent.
First, a small issue: presently, the net effect of the quirk decreases on a number of super repetitive/common and pretty useless cards has mainly been to make these cards even more useless. >_>; But this is almost certainly a circumstantial issue. All shall be well, I'm sure.
Gillsing wrote:
Chris Gardiner wrote:
One-off content (like Ambitions) or more risky content (like a laudanum habit) will allow them to rise as high as 15. So players who foolishly go after such one-off content before they've maxed out their preferred quirks will get those rare capped-at-15 increases before they actually matter? No badges that say "You may increase this quirk to 15"?
MidnightVoyager wrote:
For those of us who have already capped every one-time story, will we be able to take advantage of this? I burned quirks pretty hard on my failed Noman.
I share these questions.
This is a sort of unintended consequence that I've seen before in some RPG and RPG-like games, where there are huge unintentional mechanical benefits to simply not playing significant content until an often theoretical later date, with zero story justification whatsoever. Which is a shame.
I'll reiterate a suggestion: I suggest that there be options that allow content-capped players a way to increase their favored quirks (while lowering opposed quirks) to a high level, in exchange for a significant amount of actions, resources, or both.
Certain traits, such as Scholar of the Correspondence, already work this way. Getting SotC to 7 requires a lot of terribly-dangerous Seeking Curious in the higher-level Forgotten Quarter; increasing it from 7 to 10 is best accomplished by creating an absurd number of dangerous & expensive symphonies in the higher-level Empress' Court at 24-27 actions each, more like 60-70 actions each for a lower-level character who needs to reduce Scandal. Hell, some quirks are already a bit like this; albeit inconsistently.
Although, perhaps this is already what you had in mind? (re: the example of the laudanum habit)
This generally negates the motivation to avoid one-time storylets until you've hit X cap, except for players really overly concerned with action optimization (and that isn't really a solvable issue). But a player who just really likes playing a lot need not worry; if they miss a chance, they can make up for it later. This could also help with the recent "I just gouged my quirks at the zee festival" issue that some people have an issue with. (I'm in that... "boat". I may, er, have gone fishing way too much and way too enthusiastically.)
I'm just worried about semi-permanently missing out of content because I already played X Y and Z important storylines which were one-time and the only chances to increase B quirk to A level, except for maybe the occasional new content, which I then have to spoil and play in a game-y way if I want to not miss one of the only chances evarrrr to get B quirk again. That's a butterfly effect with pretty large potential, there.
edited by thedeadlymoose on 10/23/2014
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Eris~Jay
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/profile/Red~Rose
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
10/23/2014
|
So, pretty much like those parts of the Functionary's story that weren't tied to secret story branches? The bits like "if you're Quirk X, you'll do it in a Quirk X way; if you're Connection Y, you'll do it in a Connection Y way, otherwise you'll do it in the default way, but the practical result is the same"? Honestly, that sounds pretty good to me - like bonus delicious words and character development. I loved the Melancholy options in the Admiralty story because they're exactly how I'd react if I learned that some bureaucratic mismanagement was undoing all my friend's hard work.
edited by Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook on 10/23/2014
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
10/22/2014
|
And now I have to figure out which quirks work best for my character. Hmm. At least they'll be more relevant, and it shouldn't be too difficult to pick some out.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Sara%20Hysaro
Please do not send SMEN, cat boxes, or Affluent Reporter requests. All other social actions are welcome.
Are you a Scarlet Saint? Send a message my way to be added to the list.
|
|
|
+1
link
|