Pinmissile
Posts: 7
9/18/2014
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Hi everyone, quick, potentially stupid question here, couldn't find an answer to this on the forum.
I've unlocked the option to join the Black Ribbon, this little phrase stuck out a little.
"So, you want into the Black Ribbon, do you? Or at least, you're interested. Good. We are a duelling society of those who have the courage to face a final death. I oversee the duels (...)"
Does this mean that joining the black ribbon puts the player at risk of permanently dying?
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"Why do they call him Pinmissile? Some say he earned the name during a particularly rowdy game of needle-wrestling, others say he had horrible parents."
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Pinmissile
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The Dark Gentleman
Posts: 188
9/18/2014
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No. There was never anything to see there. It was a terrible idea even to try. Because there's no reason to do it. Even when it was available. Why do people insist on risking everything to learn Gerard's name?!
*GASP* Oh bugg--
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The Dark Gentleman~ Social actions welcome. Menace reductions upon request. Newspaper interviews by appointment. Falconry by invitation only.
"THE HOURS FEAR THE NAMES.
THE NAMES FEAR THE LONG.
THE LONG FEAR THE KNOW.
ALL FEAR THE HOURS."
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/23/2015
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Holy Threadomancy, what prompted this?
Firstly, the things that take you directly to jail, like stealing from The Bazaar, do not affect your Criminal Record.
Secondly, Neath judges are not easily threatened or bribed. They work under the constant threat of Eldritch horrors from beyond the stars. The fact that you've murdered a couple of blokes is something they see everyday. Plus the judges tend to be actual Lords with no need of money precisely so they can't be bribed.
Not to mention that Victorian judges saw actual murderers and gang bosses and still threw them in jail all the time.
Now they should be scared of The Masters, and are, which is why you can use those connections to get out of jail.
Just because your character has done some great stuff, that doesn't mean that there aren't powers in the Neath that are equally great. The jail is run by face stealing, candle eating monsters from an unknowable continent across the darkest zee. Getting out of there shouldn't be a cakewalk no matter your Shadowy.
Ultimately, Suspicion is a menace area. It's not supposed to be pleasant. It's supposed to be a punishment for letting a Menace get too high. If you could get out in a single action, or keep your Casing or just generally ignore it, you'd have no reason to manage the menace.
Criminal Record makes it a more unpleasant menace area than others, but it's also the only place where you can escape immediately if you draw 2 fortunate cards and where you can gain an Acquaintance.
I know it's annoying, but menace management is part of the game design. It keeps you from blowing through the game too quickly and provides tangible barriers to advancement. It's the stick part of the carrot and stick.
If you're really that bothered by New Newgate, just keep on top of your Suspicion(Ablution Solution isn't that great to begin with. Social actions are the best way to reduce menaces.)
If it's really so annoying, advance max out your Shadowy so you don't have to worry about it anymore.
But it's part of the game for a reason.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/24/2015
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Well, that's because your Criminal Record is a matter of...well, record.
It's written down in the books and everything. There's no one individual, even Mr Pages, who can expunge it. They are the Masters of the Bazaar, not the Masters of London. They are a powerful influence, but not the only powerful influence.
Plus the people in New Newgate see you coming back again and again, which is the only the Record really affects.
It mirrors how, in the actual criminal justice system, if a judge & cops keep seeing you, they will further and further doubt your innocence; regardless of your actual innocence.
It's a good way to encourage players to manages their Suspicion Menace, rather than let it ramp up to 9, then keep flipping cards until you get the 2 you need to escape and erase all your Suspicion.
If it's really ever bothering you that badly, feel free to send me any Suspicious reducing social actions you'd like.
I'm sure most other players will say the same thing.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Gerald Edgerton
Posts: 127
7/26/2015
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That's very kind of you, and most appreciated.
I'm not too worried about criminal records from the accumulation of evidence; rather, I intend to engage in regular heists in the future, and getting a permanent punishment for failing a single one seemed excessive. Realism and stability are already pretty much out the window; escaping jail, even when you were sent there under your own name, still means you get to stay out while becoming a notable member of society. I realize people in the Neath don't have Google, but you'd think that a judge, realizing that the protagonist was never supposed to be out of jail, would give you nigh-infinite suspicion. Going insane doesn't result in a massive/permanent loss of persuasiveness, and repeated trips to the tomb-colonies don't undermine the credibility of scandal reduction. Disbelief must periodically be suspended.
If we're acknowledging the historical bureaucratic infallibility of judges, why make a repeat offender easier to convict? That neither makes modern legal sense (burden of proof and all that) nor is historically accurate. In the application of prison sentences, conscription or other non-capital punishments, convicts of wealth or status received lighter sentences, not heavier, and being able to afford a lawyer greatly reduced the likelihood of conviction. (It's actually unusual that Abaddon & Bael can't work something out. They defeated London and were able to ransom her soldiers generously, so it stands to reason that the Embassy's military is indeed older and more formidable than London OR Newgate. And it's not like we don't know what means of payment they prefer.) Career criminals were considered to be of the lowest social class above vagrants, so zeroing Notability/Waves or deducting primary stat CPs (scaling with the total) would rapidly become srs business for a capped character that somehow ended up in jail. The infliction of 9 Wounds by hanging would also be much more historically accurate, and a much more proportionate penalty, for problematic convicts. "Oh, you think it's funny to get out of jail quickly? Let's try jail and a boat ride." That would also, in terms of alleged canon, prevent a return to the Surface, but that at least isn't a permanent change in gameplay. Also, it's dramatically powerful - maybe somebody on the Surface expected me to come back, but I got into some trouble, was sentenced to the noose and can't endure sunlight anymore. Provided first-time convicts are warned that they're risking the noose if they return, that would still be "fair" compared to punishments for other menaces. A player who prefers to navigate the game without guidance getting a few convictions shortly after achieving PoSI being stuck with their criminal record as a capped character? Disproportionate.
This doesn't seem to bother anybody else, so I'll drop it. Thank you for being willing to discuss it, and I'm sorry for accidentally changing the overall direction of the thread - the first post was intended as an observation about Feducci/instakills/other unexpected punishments.
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
7/26/2015
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Worth mentioning about death and the ability to return to the surface: it's implied that, if you're sufficiently soaked in Neathy magicky nonsense, you won't be able to return regardless of whether you died or not.
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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38thDoE
Posts: 60
7/27/2015
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Unless you lived at Hunter's Keep.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/38thDoE
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zbr308
Posts: 77
9/18/2014
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*Spoiler*
But you do have a chance to inflict permanent death on certain other people...
Pinmissile wrote:
Hi everyone, quick, potentially stupid question here, couldn't find an answer to this on the forum.
I've unlocked the option to join the Black Ribbon, this little phrase stuck out a little.
"So, you want into the Black Ribbon, do you? Or at least, you're interested. Good. We are a duelling society of those who have the courage to face a final death. I oversee the duels (...)"
Does this mean that joining the black ribbon puts the player at risk of permanently dying?
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/zbr308
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
9/18/2014
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Sara Hysaro wrote:
Snowskeeper wrote:
Spacemarine9 wrote:
No. You might die a regular ol' death, but there's no risk of actual permanent death ever.
Well. There is one instance. Impossible to access at the moment, of course, but...
That particular one didn't actually do as advertized. People far braver than I tried it and they're still around.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. =P
(I just realized that might actually need some explanation, so:
Yes, but the game /did/ advertise it as permanent death, and it was totally possible to do it, so it's worth mentioning. Not as worth mentioning as I made it out to be, though, so instead of me being all stern and disapproving, I gave you a long, drawn-out hissing noise instead.)
edited by Snowskeeper on 9/18/2014
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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WormApotheote
Posts: 725
9/18/2014
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The permanent death option of course was nowhere near the black ribbon story and was behind a very large number of warnings not to do it.
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No, I don't pull the Eater of Names.
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marcmagus
Posts: 168
7/23/2015
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What big punishments? Get imprisoned a few times (not just one) and you lose access to the most efficient Suspicion reducer, but it's not as though there aren't other options or you can't just spend some time in New Newgate like you would in the Beth or the Tomb Colonies and come back. The Slow Boat is exactly the same as the others, except that the non-cards option becomes more difficult the more you do it.
As I understand it, all players' ability to return to the Surface is probably gone from time spent in the Neath, regardless of whether they've had a ride on the boat or not.
Am I missing something?
(Although I do agree that it would make sense for enough money spent in bribes to help with that pesky "permanent" record.)
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marcmagus, a scholar of the Correspondence of some minor note and bold explorer of the new Unterzee.
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
9/18/2014
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Spacemarine9 wrote:
No. You might die a regular ol' death, but there's no risk of actual permanent death ever.
Well. There is one instance. Impossible to access at the moment, of course, but...
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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