Psst!
Posts: 99
8/11/2014
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earlier, there was a discussion covering boats and whether it made sense to buy a frigate. taken at face, there was no contest between them - the freighter was clearly a better deal. yet i couldn't help but wonder if there was something running underneath those numbers, some intangible that might not be evident to a casual review of stats and might explain the vast cost differential.
so i decided to run a test...
after hours of beating myself senseless on port-farming and (mostly fruitless) lifeberg haunts, i managed to rack up a cash store of 17,000. i double-saved the game and created three scenarios - a game with the freighter, a game with the frigate, and my original with the starting tramp-steamer as a control. using the classic (original) map, i took each vessel on the same stroll, from London Docks to Venderbight to Whither to Codex to The Chapel and finally to Mt. Palmerston, studiously avoiding confrontations and terror and doing my best to stay true to the same (and most efficient) routes between these destinations.
at the outset, my bias was strongly in favor of the frigate. i was certain there HAD to be some fundamental justification driving the vast price differential that would prove-out the vessel's worth. besides, frigates are cool.
unfortunately, that's about all they got.
after completing the test run and after much further haphazard explorations in each, i could find nothing either compelling nor commendable about the frigate. even if it were repriced to, say, just 5,000 echoes i would still not find it worth the investment over the E7,000 freighter. as it says on the box ... the freighter is cheaper, can take more hits, carry far more cargo, and doesn't cost appreciably more to operate. all you get for the extra money is a few extra stat points, easily acquired through the usual means if you opt the freighter's route. and while E14 grand only buys one frigate, that same amount of cash will buy the freighter, a judgment resonator, and one of the worst of nasties that Caminus Yards has to offer.
i'm gonna have to call it a curb-stomp.
if it matters, i now present: THE REZULTS OF ZEE TEST...
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Psst!
Posts: 99
8/11/2014
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so here it is -
trip from London to Mt. P, northern (clockwise) route (classic map)
Serpentine Engine
TRAMP STEAMER
Crew: 10
Fuel: 20 - 11.9
Food: 10 - 7.25
Terror: 0 - 6
FREIGHTER
Crew: 28
Fuel: 27.9 - 18.5
Food: 17 - 8
Terror: 0 - 7
FRIGATE
Crew: 23
Fuel: 27.9 - 19
Food: 17 - 10
Terror: 0 - 5
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KhzDonut
Posts: 20
8/26/2014
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First off, BIG thanks to the OP for the thorough examination and testing. Super awesome.
Anyway... The ship/engine/weapons balance is one of those things I've figured was very much a work in progress, especially considering the state of available enemies. It's hard to give much feedback without knowing what the end-vision, but I do hope there's either a re-balance of the ship costs, or some intermediate ships which could be considered viable upgrades.
Also, I'd love to know where this kind of thing fits in on the progress map. Ships/engines/weapons could totally go under combat, but it could also go under sailing/trade/etc to a certain extent, being that they're commodities. *shrug* Feedback might be easier to give if we had a better idea of the actual %, but it might also be a bit early to really even give feedback on it.
In general though it seems like the resell value of things coupled with the difficulty of attaining funds makes any intermediary upgrades a woefully inefficient prospect. I'm a total upgrade-nut (I love MMORPG's largely because gear upgrading somehow fulfilling) so being able to make more incremental upgrades would be pretty sweet.
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Psst!
Posts: 99
8/11/2014
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the differences between the freighter and frigate are not statistically significant and probably represent course differences more than they do any variance in rates of base consumption. excepting, of course, the increased cost of supplies which scaled to the greater number of crewmen aboard the freighter.
initially, my impression was that the frigate handled slightly better and "felt" quicker on the water, and thought that might explain the greater terror gain in the freighter. but subsequent trips around the 'zee did not replicate this difference. in fact, i was able to pull 5-point terror runs with the freighter on this same route.
more interesting was the fact that fuel and terror (a proxy for speed) rates were nearly identical across all three ships. meaning that the game measured each by the quality of its engine, and that engine's performance was calculated wholly independently of the vessel being operated. much like an outboarder's 75hp Evenrude motivating a bass fisherman's Boston Whaler or the USS New Jersey to 20 knots of speed with equal alacrity.
and as you might notice, being new to new boats (and fearing the worst), i banked heavily on anticipated fuel costs and greatly underestimated the impact of additional zailors on my rates of food consumption. i could have drastically cut fuel and definitely should have banked more supplies. on the frigate, this would have opened up much more interior room in the hold for plunder and other cargoes. as it was, i left port feeling a bit ... 'stuffed' and keenly missing that additional space in the hold that comes free with the freighter, which seemed to absorb every fault and mistaken excuse i could throw and still have room left besides.
edited by Psst! on 8/11/2014
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Psst!
Posts: 99
8/11/2014
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suggestions?
i'd say that if the current combat / engine dynamics remain unchanged, then the price of the vessel needs to seriously drop - to E4,000 or thereabout to make it practical.
in the earlier conversation, someone suggested adding more hard points / gun positions to the frigate. at first, i liked the idea. but anyone with 14K to float is probably already pretty stat-dangerous, and the game rates all guns on virtually the same level. it's not the weapon that counts, just your stats total on iron and whether or not the gun allows for flensing attacks.
if anything, i'd say strip all non-military and small attack vessels of their forward hardpoints and limit THEM to deckguns only. reserve the torpedoes and double-weapon points for the warships and drop the sales-price on something like the Maenad to somewhere near or below that of the freighter, forcing a clear distinction between those captains who wish to proceed on the wings of war, and those who intend to rely on ... 'subtler' arts in their exploration of the 'zee.
edited by Psst! on 8/11/2014
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
8/11/2014
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Psst! wrote:
if anything, i'd say strip all non-military and small attack vessels of their forward hardpoints and limit THEM to deckguns only. reserve the torpedoes and double-weapon points for the warships and drop the sales-price on something like the Maenad to somewhere near or below that of the freighter, forcing a clear distinction between those captains who wish to proceed on the wings of war, and those who intend to rely on ... 'subtler' arts in their exploration of the 'zee.
I wonder if we can take the ships' art as indicative of their future slotting? The beginning steamer has no visible guns, so perhaps not, but of the others... the merchantman has one gun; the cutter, corvette and frigate have two; the dreadnaught appears to be positively bristling with guns. If cannons/harpoons/torpedoes were rebalanced, and the steamer and merchantman could only choose one (while the dreadnaught could have all three)... well, that would go some way to boosting the appeal of the military ships!
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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