Sunjammer
Posts: 1
7/14/2014
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Hi guys, early access customer on Steam here, casual Fallen London player..
I don't know how to put this gently. I want to love Sunless Sea so much I can practically taste the brine. I love the writing, the theme, the music, the presentation. I think it's got incredible potential.
But I hate the combat like dentistry. Every single time I boot the game up to have another look, I'm almost scrambling for alt+F4 within ten minutes. The combat is just awful. I'm a big fan of turn based tactics games, so it's not that. I don't think confusing the basically turnbased nature of the combat with timers is a way to make it more "dynamic". Instead, you're making me wait as timers fill. The illumination mechanic is terrible. It turns combat into a rope pulling contest interleaved with timer waiting. And in the middle of it, there is nothing to do. You watch timers. A game filled with evocative writing and world building, reduced to timers and queuing of more timers.
If I were you, and I'm an indie developer myself, I'd toss the entirety of the system and start over. It's too much, it's too slow, it's too encapsulated, and it, for me at least, completely ruins the game.
I'd look into action points or time units over timers. I'd make attempts at making individual decisions matter more. Fewer choices, bigger impacts. I'm in the game world to experience the stories, not wait for timers to fill, no?
In either case, for me, and anecdotally to a good few others, combat is the bane of Sunless Sea right now, and I think it's got fundamental issues that cannot be solved with balancing.
Best wishes, regardless. The game has so much potential.
- Andreas
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+3
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Ewan C.
Posts: 675
7/16/2014
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Agreed. I thought that the Observation concept was really really cool, and I never bother because the payoff is so low.
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+5
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lord1box
Posts: 62
7/16/2014
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If anything needs to change it's observations. The reward for observations is disproportionate to how much time and risk you take to get them.
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+4
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lord1box
Posts: 62
7/15/2014
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For me combat seems to work as intended.
I have to say though that I fought monsters in a tiered system
tier 3: zee bats, auroral megalops, and pirate steamers
tier 2: bound sharks, possibly albino morays and the smaller angler crabs
tier 3: War trimerians, unfinished pirates, Mt Nomad, Lorn fluke, pirate frigates
Tier 3 monsters I fought from the start. Tier 2 monsters after I raised veils and iron to 51 base. Tier 3 monsters are what I'm fighting now that my stats are all nearing or over 100.
I like how you can use the different timers to strategically time your evasions and attacks. I have to say though that once you get a harpoon, preferably the 1000 echoes one, your flensing attacks will always be the best option for attack.
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+1
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TyrrelDuckard
Posts: 69
7/15/2014
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I found a very good idea on the Steam Community Page:
Combat handled as story events, like the one in ports.
Choices can be based on your stats, or you equipment, and every failure and success will bring you to the next step of the fight.
This would be keeping in the spirit of the game, and it would make even repeating combat fast and not so repetitive (bats, auroral megalops)
The idea is not mine, is from user Thy Reaper on Steam, you can find his post on the Community Hub, the thread Combat Overhaul, page 16 I believe.
It's a bold idea, and maybe it could be integrated with the current combat system, so not to scrap it all, but it could work.
Also the roadmap says the combat is completed only at 65%: this could be the remaining 35%.
edited by tyrrelduckard on 7/15/2014
--
MrDuckard is how I'm known in this dark city.
If you wish to make my aquitance, fell free to send me a card.
I'm mostly disponible for most social actions, especially cats.
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/MrDuckard
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+1
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Ewan C.
Posts: 675
7/15/2014
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Just popping my head over the parapet to say that I *like* the combat system :-). It's a little repetitive/grindy but less so than other game elements, and for me captures the right balance between assured outcomes and a little fog of war, with appropriate danger level from different enemies depending on your ship and stats.
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+1
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Niddhog
Posts: 19
7/15/2014
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Combat gets a lot more interesting when you realize you can force enemies to loose time (the hidden and most important resource) by dropping your illumination/distance below thresholds while they are in the middle of an action. Take lifebergs, they can't attack closer than 40m. So if you flee to 50m while they are trying to crush you, the attack will automatically cancel. You can have a flee just .2 seconds ahead of their crush, and you'll still come out safe.
Once you get a grasp of this side of combat, it becomes a lot more fun. You can anticipate the enemies next moves (and how much time they'll take) and figure out what actions you can squeeze in while still countering their salvo by dipping your illumination below 50 as they are firing... The main wrench in this plan is that actions still have a huge potential range. Is that evade going to drop 15 or 40 illumination? Is my next salvo going to do 9 or 25 damage? For the hull/illumination ranges we are dealing with, this disparating is galling.
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+1
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