Finvara
Posts: 430
5/10/2013
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I went ahead with it. It's excellent so far
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Professor~Varald
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
5/10/2013
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OPG: I see your point re: timing. I'll add it to the list of things to take a look at.
Someone said elsewhere - I thought on this thread, but I can't see it now - that they'd cheerfully pay Fate for more Sisters information. That's unlikely to happen - they are what they are - but there are extant clues about some of the island's subsidiary mysteries, and there will probably be more.
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OPG
Posts: 387
5/10/2013
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One thing I would recommend (take this as player feedback) is if the storylet "A Bottle of the Good Port" had a higher price in Fate/Nex, but led into a storylet about what was under the Palace. It'd only have to be as long as one branch of the Soul Trade, and it would be cool to see what was under there, even if only in a similar way to how we learn what "F.F" in F.F. Gebrant stands for.
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overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Flidget
Posts: 88
5/10/2013
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I personally would gladly pay Fate to be able to keep a mistress or a cicisbeo on the side in addition to my spouse (that honey-addicted wastrel is constantly cheating on me with some heiress, anyway).
I don't want them to give much of a stat bonus, it's just that it feels odd to me that before becoming People of Some Importance we can be notoriously open and free with our affections but it all dries up once we've achieved some social standing.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Flidget
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Finvara
Posts: 430
5/10/2013
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I, on the other hand, am a hedonist to the bone, and would love to pay fate for the option of polygamy. Obviously you could only EQUIP one spouse at once, but if they're into it, I don't see why they can't all hang out in my various suites in and around Fallen London doing each others nails, curling each others mustaches, soforth and so-on. Honestly it's just so difficult to find properly decadent pursuits these days.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Professor~Varald
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OPG
Posts: 387
5/10/2013
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Eh, there's always laudanum.
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overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Flidget
Posts: 88
5/10/2013
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Well, yes, that too, but I can't actually marry my first choice for a spouse due to the awkward social status of their being dead and, if their death does not bar the match, the open secret they already have a spouse among the living.
Several other romance options fall into such problematic categories, such as the alluringly mature but quite certainly married F.F. Gebrandt.
edited by Flidget on 5/10/2013
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Flidget
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Finvara
Posts: 430
5/10/2013
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A VERY good point, although marrying someone ELSE'S spouse would CERTAINLY be decadent! Jambie! *Claps twice* The chocolate icing! Quickly, I feel a draft!
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Professor~Varald
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Zeedee
Posts: 276
5/10/2013
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Isn't the single Spouse restriction based on narrative necessity? Does the Bazaar not hold an interest in our affairs? When you bind yourself to a Spouse, the Bazaar hopes you're doing it due to true love; your mate is as vital to you as the fetid air you breathe; parting with your limbs would be easier than parting with your beloved. You and your Spouse will craft a towering love story. One day, the Masters will come for you and your story. (Or at least I think that's what's suppose to happen.)
Besides, how many tales of true love involve three or more parties? Was it Romeo and Juliet and the Friar? No, please. Nor was it Pygmalion and Galatea and the Animated Chisel. Did Orpheus go to Hades for his wife, his mistress, his second mistress, his satyr beau, and his satyr beau's studly twin? There is some throwing of arms up in exasperation happening here.
This isn't to say I'm against legal polygamy being enacted in the game. That's something I voted for in the feedback forum. :p
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Please do not send me monstrous invitations tinged with the inks of the undernight or Boxed Cats. (I rotate my Starveling list, so it might take me a while to reach your name. I haven't forgotten anyone!)
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Finvara
Posts: 430
5/10/2013
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Sometimes a Love Story is more complicated than the basic formulae we are taught to expect, and more enjoyable.
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OPG
Posts: 387
5/10/2013
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Zeedee wrote:
Nor was it Pygmalion and Galatea and the Animated Chisel.
Best slash fiction ever.
Also as we all should know, whatever you do in the Neath, you don't fall in love.
(Then again, I'd make an exception for one of the Feast companions if given the option)
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overpoweredginger, an irresistible, magnificent, midnight and sagacious gentleman.
A Fallen London Roleplay Community exists. Contrary to popular belief, Richard Nixon is not involved.
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Zeedee
Posts: 276
5/11/2013
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Finvara wrote:
Sometimes a Love Story is more complicated than the basic formulae we are taught to expect, and more enjoyable. I agree! I don't even consider the stories I listed as those of true love, though they're highly inspirational classics of the romance genre. I was just poking fun at you.
Out of the three I named, Pygmalion's tale is my favorite psychological study. Pygmalion was a man who saw so much flaw in living and human women that he shunned them and vowed never to marry. He spent his waking hours with stone and the tools to shape stone. He carved a sculpture of his ideal woman, the "perfect beauty" Galatea...and fell in love with that. (Or at least he thought he did. I don't believe he loved the carving at all, at least in a healthy way. Perhaps it was only a mixture of loneliness, frustration and obsession.) He wished for his statue to come to life and Aphrodite granted his wish. Sometimes I wonder about what Aphrodite really gave him. Was Galatea her own person or was she merely a walking and talking reflection of Pygmalion's ideals? Always telling him what he wanted to hear? Doing everything he wanted no matter the reasons? From that perspective, it's rather sad and creepy. The "Finder of Heiresses" storyline is tinged with the same feeling. I made different ending decisions with my alts after I learned about Polythreme.
When I think back to the Comtessa's eyes, I feel uncertain of who or what she feared. I was first certain that it was her impending death and torturous encasement in stone, or her Clay lover. I smashed the Comtessa's statue to pieces because it felt like the merciful choice. Now doubt has crept in... Maybe she feared me, that I'd stop their transmutation project. For all I know, the Clay paramour was keeping her alive with Correspondence sigils engraved within her statue and he would have taken her aboard a ship bound for Polythreme. Maybe the excess vitality of Polythreme would have truly turned the Comtessa into a Clay Woman. ...So, with another character, I left her there with her Clay lover. Both decisions still haunt me. There are too many "what if's", but that's okay. Not every story has or needs to have emotional closure.
When I said "narrative necessity", I really meant it would be a helluva lot easier to write and code a two-party storyline. That also seems to be the foundation FL is setting: a stage for you and your true love and your choices. Always with the choices. I support the idea of a character who feels he/she/it's in love with two or more people. It'll be exquisite when the character's feelings are tested. Yes, you love them all, but who do you love most? If you were forced to save only one, who would it be? It'd be a delicious tale, the taste of honey mixed with bitter almonds.
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Please do not send me monstrous invitations tinged with the inks of the undernight or Boxed Cats. (I rotate my Starveling list, so it might take me a while to reach your name. I haven't forgotten anyone!)
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Flidget
Posts: 88
5/11/2013
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Zeedee wrote:
When I said "narrative necessity", I really meant it would be a helluva lot easier to write and code a two-party storyline. That also seems to be the foundation FL is setting: a stage for you and your true love and your choices. Always with the choices. I support the idea of a character who feels he/she/it's in love with two or more people. It'll be exquisite when the character's feelings are tested. Yes, you love them all, but who do you love most? If you were forced to save only one, who would it be? It'd be a delicious tale, the taste of honey mixed with bitter almonds.
That brings up the question of what the Bazaar considers a quality love story - does tragedy make it bitter or just more delicious?
In terms of the difficulty of writing such storylines, we do already have a few opportunities for threesomes in the game. Matters concerning the Wit and the Celebrated Beauty especially could easily continue being marvellously over-complicated on a more permanent basis.
As for my original request for a paramour it's partially because I assume that in the 5th City, especially among the upper classes, it's still not expected you always marry for love. Marriage to them is an economic arrangement and a political alliance, love is something you do on the side - and the Bazaar seems to accept that sort of business as valid nutrition, given the investigative interests of certain fake reporters.
I'm sure that certain economically-minded Masters are trying to change that, though, because if nothing else it would be so much easier to gather love stories if everyone wasn't busy being so discreet about theirs. (That at least is my personal explanation for why I woke up one morning and discovered my Constant Companion was now my Spouse - it's in the best interests of the Bazaar . . . or at least the cheaper way to feed it.)
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Zeedee
Posts: 276
5/11/2013
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Flidget wrote:
That brings up the question of what the Bazaar considers a quality love story - does tragedy make it bitter or just more delicious? Yes, what varieties of love does the Bazaar favor? Maybe it doesn't care so much for tragedy as what that tragedy does to the people involved. Grief often brings true characters to light. For better or worse, it's an effective way to test and transform people. The Masters know this well... Is that not when they appear to bargain for the fate of a city and its inhabitants? Heavy-handed, to say the least of it. I believe the Bazaar appreciates the flavors of endless yearning and devotion. Those are basic but solid flavors. There are darker ones such as resentment and guilt. Maybe the Bazaar savors a different emotional cocktail each day of the week?
Flidget wrote:
In terms of the difficulty of writing such storylines, we do already have a few opportunities for threesomes in the game. Matters concerning the Wit and the Celebrated Beauty especially could easily continue being marvellously over-complicated on a more permanent basis. Those were pleasant dalliances. I'm expecting to be blown away when we're faced with genuine love. It's been built up to be this Big Thing in FL. I can't help being hyped for a grand finale involving Spouses or whatever game mechanic marks your choice of True Love.
Flidget wrote:
As for my original request for a paramour it's partially because I assume that in the 5th City, especially among the upper classes, it's still not expected you always marry for love. Marriage to them is an economic arrangement and a political alliance, love is something you do on the side - and the Bazaar seems to accept that sort of business as valid nutrition, given the investigative interests of certain fake reporters. Social moors are prominent, but they can be as inspiring as they are confining. Some people bond better when they feel they're surrounded on all sides by obstacles. Of course, we're presuming the stories' characters are sentient people. Those fake reporters also sent us to investigate a certain astronomer. He seemed to love his work, studying and observing the celestial bodies in the sky. If a player wants to marry his boat out of love, how would that work...? I guess that could count as an exotic blend for the Bazaar. Someone's bound to want to go the Narcissist route. I'm a little surprised we haven't encountered an "Is Someone There?" Fingerwork story where someone tries to pull his reflection out of a mirror so he can wed it.
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Please do not send me monstrous invitations tinged with the inks of the undernight or Boxed Cats. (I rotate my Starveling list, so it might take me a while to reach your name. I haven't forgotten anyone!)
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Tesuji
Posts: 161
5/11/2013
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Zeedee wrote:
I'm expecting to be blown away when we're faced with genuine love. It's been built up to be this Big Thing in FL. I can't help being hyped for a grand finale involving Spouses or whatever game mechanic marks your choice of True Love.
That's along the lines of what I was thinking as well... which is why I was a bit surprised (and a little disappointed) when "Constant Companion" switched to "Spouse" a little while ago without any real fanfare.
I guess I had considered Constant Companions as being a step or two down from that--sort of the level where you're committed to each other and might both have your name on a lease or a bank account (and so disentangling yourself requires a bit of effort) but not at the level of being married.
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Tesuji.
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Finvara
Posts: 430
5/12/2013
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Constant Companion could just as easily be Jimmy Olsen as Lowis Lane, though. The name didn't imply any romance at all, really.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Professor~Varald
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Flidget
Posts: 88
5/12/2013
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Zeedee wrote:
If a player wants to marry his boat out of love, how would that work...?
Polythreme! The Gretna Green of the Neath for people who truly, deeply love their boats.
Zeedee wrote:
I guess that could count as an exotic blend for the Bazaar. Someone's bound to want to go the Narcissist route. I'm a little surprised we haven't encountered an "Is Someone There?" Fingerwork story where someone tries to pull his reflection out of a mirror so he can wed it.
Actually now you bring that up I'm surprised about it too. That seems exactly the sort of thing a truly advanced hedonist would consider.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Flidget
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Zeedee
Posts: 276
5/12/2013
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"Constant Companion" was a nice catchall, especially for maneuvering around the issue of whether you were bound legally or not to your possible (but probable) lover of uncertain gender. It was open-ended enough to allow your imagination to roam how it wanted.
On the other hand, "Spouse" is far easier to type out. This obvious advantage clearly outweighs all other considerations!
In case anyone has yet to read this:
http://about.failbettergames.com/2013/03/15/slightly-breaking-same-sex-marriage-legal-in-fallen-london/
So, it turns out you were married all along and you just weren't aware of it till recently. Welcome to Fallen London!
Not everyone's choice of Great Love will be that of a lover. Your most valued personal relationship is not necessarily fraught with passion. Perhaps the person you love most is your sibling, your friend, or that rowdy zailor you see every other week at the Blind Helmsman pub who slurs his speech when he's nervous. (I'm dodging the non-humanoid and abstract options.)
From what I've read, it seems players want a specific breakdown:
Spouse - Married or Unmarried (Romantic)
Constant Companion (Platonic)
Harem - Married or Unmarried (Romantic)
Other(?) - Nonentity and/or Inanimate (Bizarre as the Bazaar)
I would appreciate access to the first two models to distinguish between a Platonic companion choice and romantic companion choice. For Platonic CC, think Holmes and Watson (and not the slash fanfiction you've been reading). I'm more likely to select a friend than a lover for my "Beloved" game slot. I think it quite natural to be an option, so I'll just patiently wait for it to be coded...
@Flidget
It's possible we'll see such a storyline when we get to explore more of Parabola. An allusion to Narcissus' tale seems too good to pass up, especially when you think of the fantastically crazy and lovelorn versions which include Echo the nymph and Ameinias.
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Please do not send me monstrous invitations tinged with the inks of the undernight or Boxed Cats. (I rotate my Starveling list, so it might take me a while to reach your name. I haven't forgotten anyone!)
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Rowan Dusang
Posts: 57
5/13/2013
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I have several problems with the current "Spouse" model as our Great Love Affair of the Neath.
For a world that feeds on extraordinary love stories—a place where love transcends death, endures centuries, and involves the greatest of sacrifices—our own marriage prospects seem awfully shallow, do they not? A brief and trifling courtship, consisting almost solely of material gifts of stultifying expense. Then a marriage proposal. And a party. The end.
Never mind the fact that there are only two non-fate-locked options—we've had far richer courtships with non-marriageable characters such as the Once-Dashing Smuggler or the Secular Missionary. Courtships with narrative. With tension. With hints of tribulation, with the potential for sacrifice. And yet our only options for legal love involve people we've only been on a few dates with, who we must ply into marriage with money and prezzies.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Rowan~DuSang
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Flidget
Posts: 88
5/13/2013
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The Fate-locked Spouses may actually be worse in that regard. My courtship of the Cultured Attachée felt so rushed that I ended up swiftly divorcing her and slinking back to the Master Jewel Thief because at least it felt like there was a little actual romance there.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Flidget
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