Nigel Evans
Posts: 212
8/6/2012
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In StoryNexus, there's no way to get rid of a Sometimes card other than playing it*. This is intentional, but has some design implications for creators, so I'll go into some detail here:
Firstly, you might not be able to a play a card because you don't qualify for any of the branches. So it's going to stay in your hand forever. This shouldn't happen - but it's up to creators to stop it from happening. You do this by ensuring that the first branch on each Sometimes card doesn't have any requirements - so it can always be played. The technology doesn't enforce this - it's up to you to make sure that players will always be able to get rid of a card once they draw it.
Secondly, the players may no longer qualify for a card because their qualities changed between the time they drew the card into their hands and the time they want to play it, and they no longer qualify for the root-level requirements of the card. So, if a card has 'Hounded by the Neighbours Minimum 1' on the root, a player could draw the card, and then play the 'Neighbourhood Apocalypse' Always card, which removes that quality. When the player doesn't meet the root requirements for a card already drawn, the card cannot be played - even if there are branches with no requirements on them. It will hang around in their hand forever, unless their qualities change again so that they meet the requirements.
This is obviously bad, so the rule is: 'For Sometimes cards, ensure that any quality changes that makes the card unplayable are on the card itself'. Doing this will mean that the card will never be stuck in the player's hand.
There being no auto-discard is a design decision, but it's different from Fallen London, so it might take a bit of getting used to. But it does enforce a design principle that we think will help creators make better games:
In Fallen London, there are an awful lot of Sometimes cards (well, they're called opportunities, but you get the idea). Hundreds of the things, usually with one or two branches. But take a look at Cabinet Noir, which is built with the StoryNexus engine. There are fewer cards (for example, 24 in the Day deck) but there are more branches on each one. You can get round some of the difficulties caused by the lack of an auto-discard by adopting this design.
If you have a set number (let's say 24 for argument, but any number beyond 12 or so should work) of Sometimes cards, you'll have a good idea of how often each one will come around. Which is good when planning new stuff. And when you want to add more Sometimes content, you should add more branches to existing cards rather than creating more Sometimes cards. This means that you can have cards that have that necessary no-requirements first branch easily (because you only have to write 12 or 24 or however many cards you have of the things, rather than having to write an extra branch each for many cards), and you can control the requirements for your new content on the branches rather than the root events.
It does mean that your root text has to pull a lot of weight - it has to introduce a lot more branches. So you could make each card a location or a person or an event (like a festival or a night out) where you could conceivably bump into a lot of different stuff or find out different things or whatever. Again, check out Cabinet Noir to see how we did this.
*There is an exception - the whole hand is discarded whenever the character changes settings, but that's a special case, and not something to rely on when building most content.
Edit: Clarity
edited by Goatdance on 8/6/2012
edited by Goatdance on 8/8/2012
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katastrophe
Posts: 17
9/9/2012
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leokhorn wrote:
Trying to find a solution by myself, I've used a change of Setting to clear the hand. It does work. The problem is I planned to have more of these "exclusive areas" and while I could use multiple Settings, it means I'm locked out of universal Pinned cards and Opportunities (whereas it can be done with areas -- "Any")
The two ways I've found personally to get around this:
1) Very basic root text (as suggested upthread) that can apply in many areas, with area-specific branches. So, for example, a card called "A Chance Encounter" with the root text "Who's that coming towards you?" could be used in just a ton of areas; the specific people one might encounter gets changed in the branches.
2) Less elegantly, an "only a memory" option. For example, I have a Sometimes card called "The Gardens" -- but there's only Gardens in Area 1. If the player moves to Area 2 with Gardens in her hand, then tries to play it, there's a single branch saying something like "Only a green memory now, alas; there are no gardens here." I haven't playtested this very well yet, because I'm still mucking about with my areas and settings and haven't gotten around to restarting my character and playing the whole mess from ground zero again, so use at your own risk. And then tell me what screws up. 
--
Oh hey, a webcomic.
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katastrophe
Posts: 17
9/9/2012
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SmyJohn wrote:
For what it's worth, I think that's very elegant indeed. Great idea.
Thank you!
I've also toyed with the idea of related content -- so the memory of the gardens triggers a thought about the area you're in, or you get a branch like "There are no gardens here -- but isn't that the Gardener? What's she doing in this desolate place?" But there are play issues with that, since as it stands the player would only run across that branch if they happened to move areas with that specific card in hand. So it needs to be essentially flavor text (a nice touch, but not plot-relevant) or the card needs to live in both areas after all.
I'm finding the whole "no discard" thing a bit like writing sonnets. You spend a lot of time counting syllables and swearing, but what you come up with in the end is far better than what you would have done on your own.
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Oh hey, a webcomic.
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Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
10/9/2012
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Ian - bear in mind if you want dismissable cards, you can just copy-paste a one-word 'discard' branch on to every card. But do remember - you played Fallen London, but we had to build and maintain it, and we've had a series of sharp lessons in the limitations that discardable cards impose. :-) FL isn't more sophisticated than CN because it features a discard button - it's more sophisticated because it's approximately twenty times the size.
In related news, though, we are considering the possibility of allowing individual Sometimes cards to be 'transient', i.e., auto-discard when they no longer match player qualities. This would allow some flexibility to cover edge cases where getting stuck with a card is a problem, or where cards need to disappear for plot reasons when they're no longer relevant. Sound off on the suggestions thread, folks, if you think this would be useful.
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Chris Gardiner
Administrator
Posts: 539
9/9/2012
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leokhorn wrote:
I have the player start aboard a zeppelin, with the goal to get out of it somehow. The ways out are pinned cards with restricted choices (Qualities to improve). I'm using Opportunities to represent various locations on the zeppelin, as well as random events such as "A Patrol!"
Once all this is done, I intend the player to reach a large hub àla Fallen London (though probably dealt with as a single area). From there, the player would be able to go all over the world as adventures pop up.
Any advice?
As people have said, you definitely want separate settings for this. In Fallen London, the introduction in New Newgate is a separate setting to the city itself for this very reason.
It's worth exploring ways to make the absence of a discard option a virtue in your designs. It allows some options that weren't possible in Fallen London. Here's a technique we're planning to use in an unannounced project and trailing in The Silver Tree:
Have mini-menace qualities, like Lost, Weary, or Having a Bad Day. Have an opportunity card for each one, made available by having 1+ of the quality. Each card has branches that let you remove or reduce the menace, but at a cost. You get rid of Having a Bad Day by snapping at a colleague, but that reduces your Trust quality with them. You get rid of Weary by resting, but it reduces your Hot on Their Trail quality.
The player can ignore the card if they want, but it eats up a slot in their hand while they do, so each draw is less useful. This is a decent way of doing nuisance-level menaces.
There are various tweaks you can do, too. Like have a mini-menace that unlocks one card at 1+, one at 3+ and one at 6+. Now, if that quality is allowed to get out of control it could potentially eat up your whole hand until you start addressing it.
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leokhorn
Posts: 33
9/9/2012
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Thanks for the tips katastrophe. While I considered option 1, as officially suggested, I didn't quite look at it the way you present it. I guess it *could* work, but I'm still not sure I like it. Seems like it will be a pain to design or will make all Opportunities *very* generic looking from the outset.
In that sense, I like the idea of adding a custom "discard" option ourselves, as option 2 suggests... *thinks*... except you can't test the current area that way. It would need to be a Quality! Huh... I'm starting to wonder if "moving around" should be dealt with in a very custom way, as a Quality too, then...
I'll look into it. In the meantime, feel free to suggest other solutions
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