Conker
Posts: 19
6/16/2014
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Okay, so I was doing the whole big rat storyline, and my chance of sucess was 100%. I didnt want to lose my "disgraced rattus faber bandit-chief" but it said it was 100% of not failing. So I went with it, only to get the message I succeeded but lost the Disgraced bandit cheif.
It said "you may get a chance to regain your rat later"
But my question is, how? I dont want to lose my rat, ive been using the talkative ones until I got a 100% at not failing, just to get this hit out of nowhere.
Can someone please explain to me what I can do to get my rat back? if not this is seriously misleading in saying I wouldnt lose him :/
edited by Conker on 6/16/2014
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/conker
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Theus
Posts: 311
6/17/2014
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Since his victory has cleared his disgrace, he is no longer a Disgraced Rattus Faber Bandit-Chief, and can be had for only 320 Echoes at the bazaar. Give him the same name, and you are restored.
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http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Hefty~Harrison
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A B Nile
Posts: 414
6/17/2014
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Hmmm. I am now starting to feel like I did my rat and his quest for honour a disservice by Fate-buying him back.
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My profile: A B Nile
My alt: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate
(seeking Acquaintances and accepting all social actions)
Item conversion table - finally complete with all rare successes!
Bloody, bold and resolute
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/4/2014
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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dov
Posts: 2580
6/17/2014
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I agree that the text is confusing (but I wouldn't say "misleading").
The option is about using the Disgraced Bandit Chief against the Big Rat, and the text just tells you that a failure in the challenge will cost you your rat as well as setting you back in your struggle against the Big Rat. I absolutely agree that it would have been better for the text to make it explicit that this is a suicide mission and you'll lose the Disgraced Bandit Chief either way.
But story-wise, I don't feel "cheated". This is a story-driven game. You've raised your stats so that you had 100% success chance, and you've indeed succeeded - the Disgraced Bandit Chief has succeeded in his (suicide) mission against the Big Rat and redeemed his honour. This is a story-driven game, and for some characters, the story ends with their death. Later in the game, you'll be faced with other choices, some with permanent consequences to certain characters. All part of a good story.
I'm sorry that you got caught by surprise by this story development (as I said, I agree that the storylet text should be more explicit on the consequences of this choice). I hope you can move on from this, and maybe even regain your Disgraced Bandit Chief at some point in the future.
--
 Want a sip of Hesperidean Cider? Send me a request in-game. Here's an_ocelot's guide how.
(Most social actions are welcome. Please no requests to Loiter Suspiciously and no investigations of the Affluent Photographer)
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Master Polarimini
Posts: 310
7/4/2014
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I agree that the loss of the rat is quite the shock and that the previous wording of the warning was ambiguous, but I don't understand why there should NOT be such shocks in a game, even moreso considering that the disappearing rat is not top tier for what concerns pets.
I do not find this twist either wrong or unfair.
edited by Master Polarimini on 7/4/2014
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Devices workshop opening soon...
Follow my story at http://www.fallenlondon.com/Profile/Master~Polarimini
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
6/17/2014
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A B Nile wrote:
Hmmm. I am now starting to feel like I did my rat and his quest for honour a disservice by Fate-buying him back.
You are a terrible human. BAD A B NILE, BAD.
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
6/16/2014
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Conker wrote:
The game implied I would not lose him, All other options with 100% success he comes back, if you lose hes gone. This just feels like he was taken away just for a cheap death, when I could have easily send a talkative rat in his place. Its just cheap.
The game implied nothing of the sort. You inferred that, because he was able to come back previously, he'd be able to come back every time. That might be the case in your typical video-game, but it's almost never the case in real life or, for that matter, in most other narrative works--the more dangerous the mission is, the more likely it is to be a suicide mission.
Fallen London is a game about words. 9/10, they'll choose to go with what makes a good story over any other option, because that's what Fallen London is. Don't think of it as losing the Disgraced Bandit Chief. Remember, instead, the story you got from it.
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
6/16/2014
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Conker wrote:
Sara Hysaro wrote:
I don't think it actually said that you wouldn't lose him, but there really ought to be a clear warning that you will lose him - win or lose. You can get him back later with 10 Fate at the end of the storyline (if you side with the Albino Rat, and on the card that follows), if you'd still like to get him back.
10 FATE?!! Aggh, this is horse crap, if i known that I would have used the talkative rats. Man this is unfair, i dont have 10 fate, and i didnt want to lose him either... :c
Is the game just trying to screw me to make me pay? I had 100% success of not failing, and the game still took my rat....its just not fair.
Please tell me there is something that can be done about this. Can I contact some game dev about this to get my rat back? i feel so cheated...
edited by Conker on 6/16/2014
I believe originally the rat was not get backable. People requested, begged, pleaded, offered first born and so on. So the fate option was added. The fate option is fate locked as it's a cheat. It's an acknowledgement you're playing outside the storyline.
So it's not a trick to make you pay, but a begrudging sighed 'if you have to go against the story', you can, but you have to make an aware choice.
Basically this is one of the sad storylines of FL - where even winning is bitter sweet. FL does this to you now and then - I find it makes all the choices more valuable, as it means sometimes there is no right one, no perfect outcome, no way to win (I will not make a Star Trek reference here) - and if you don't use the wiki, you don't know which of these these'll be. Other people hate it.
edited by babelfishwars on 6/16/2014
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
6/16/2014
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Those options never said that success would protect your rat - only that failure would lead to his death. In this case, both options lead to his death. You say you liked his story - well, his story concluded with the poor creature feeling so wretched in his life that he carefully and deliberately planned and undertook a suicide mission, achieving one final victory at the cost of his own life. That is the conclusion of his narrative, and no more useful options for him exist beyond that point.
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Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
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Endy
Posts: 278
6/17/2014
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I love the name of honor, more than I fear death.
-Julius Caesar
That really was what his story was all about. Sacrificing his life helping to defeat one of the greatest menaces to Ratdom of all time.
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sonantem aeternum ad terram
Through the darker shadows.
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CameoAppearance
Posts: 146
7/4/2014
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Dude, if you want Fate, buy your own Fate. Begging is unseemly at the best of times, and you're asking for a nontrivial amount of Real Cash Money from complete strangers (since, after all, Fate can be bought in any quantity but only sent in batches of 100, i.e. $20 USD) while carrying on about how no one is going to give you that much. They'd be entirely right to give you nothing, because no one owes you anything just because you're sad about your bad rat decisions.
Perhaps you have difficulty making purchases over the internet; maybe you don't have a credit card or a Paypal account. But surely you can hand over $2.50 or local equivalent to a friend or family member who has one and have them do it on your behalf, or buy a prepaid credit card in a low denomination (which would probably fund many more small internet purchases), or play all the stories that give out small dribbles of Fate at crucial moments and scrape them together for rat ransom.
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Dr Cameo “Scary Teeth” Thurlow, that toothy androgyne with the wickedly sharp curly quotes
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
7/4/2014
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Zack Oak wrote:
The game makes no promises or implications that you will get the disgraced bandit-chief back. The actual snippet of text is "This is probably a suicide mission, but at least he'll die redeemed. You may get a chance to regain your rat later." I'm afraid you are too late to argue this particular point, since the text you are quoting is the new warning, as can be seen in the edit history (link) for that article.
The old warning, from the time when this thread was started, read: "Warning - if you fail, you will lose your rat, and the Big Rat will feel reassured that he has gotten rid of a spy."
Which to me certainly implies that not failing (also known as "succeeding") will not lead to a loss of one's rat. And since it's also the game speaking directly to the player, I would have expected honesty rather than deception through omission/misdirection. And I guess whoever changed the text might have agreed with that? Or maybe it was just a squeaky wheel getting some grease.
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CameoAppearance
Posts: 146
7/4/2014
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I myself sent the Disgraced Bandit-Chief on that mission and wasn't expecting to lose my rat anyway if I succeeded, and I think it did have the old warning then. I agree that the new warning is better, because I didn't feel very warned either; however, I think it's a fitting end for him and I might have sent him anyway because it was much more dramatic than my other options.
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Dr Cameo “Scary Teeth” Thurlow, that toothy androgyne with the wickedly sharp curly quotes
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Zack Oak
Posts: 205
7/4/2014
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Huh. Good to know, I wasn't aware the description had changed in the interim. I remember the warning that told me it was very unlikely he'd come back alive when this storylet first came out. Either way, I think the goal in mind was to make it less obvious you would lose him, or at least not have it as a glaring warning sign. From a narrative and even a game perspective, not having that be explicit is a sensible decision to me.
This is why I think that: a consequence, especially a narrative one, is not the same when you know for fact what's coming. You can have an idea, or even a bit of knowledge that the risk is there, but knowing flat-out? That's kind of... well, it robs the moment of its weight. It removes the choice, and effectively the option if you know you'll lose a unique rat, because you have other, "expendable" choices. Gameplay, especially choice-based, is not about having all the best choices mapped out for you with warning signs and bright lights. It means you can, based on your decisions, make a choice with tragic outcomes. It means you can choose wrong, and not get a second chance unless you're willing to use fate like a reset button. It's not unfair, neither is not including a warning. I think having more of one is fine from a customer service perspective, but story-wise, I think it was fine as it was.
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Roland Banning, The Ambitious Operative (Profile)
Tumblr RP Account
Ask me about the Delicious Friends RP group!
Open for social actions (no cats or photographers, please. Currently taking a break from K&C.)
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Gillsing
Posts: 1203
7/4/2014
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Master Polarimini wrote:
I do not find this twist either wrong or unfair. I don't find the twist unfair either, only the old warning. Or perhaps I should call it the 'intermediate warning', as a look even further back reveals that the earliest wikia article does not contain a metagame warning from Failbetter Games, but a warning in the regular description: "But be warned. Succeed or fail, there are long odds against his survival." That seems entirely fair to me, though there's no shocking twist unless the rat survives. I wonder why it was changed?
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Andrea Serafini
Posts: 169
6/17/2014
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Conker, post your fallen london ID, if you like. I am sure that other players will be more than glad to help you obtain your redeemed rat with some gifts 
(On my own, i offer my old self to go out on romantic streaks. They´re quite profitable, if you like)
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Mizr Edlaine Saphburgh, the Prothean Neologist
Per aspera, sic itur ad astra
(i.e. I'd really love to patron new and seasoned Londoneers, or help them in any other way possible.
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"Many" Chin
Posts: 383
7/4/2014
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babelfishwars wrote:
Conker wrote:
Sara Hysaro wrote:
I don't think it actually said that you wouldn't lose him, but there really ought to be a clear warning that you will lose him - win or lose. You can get him back later with 10 Fate at the end of the storyline (if you side with the Albino Rat, and on the card that follows), if you'd still like to get him back.
10 FATE?!! Aggh, this is horse crap, if i known that I would have used the talkative rats. Man this is unfair, i dont have 10 fate, and i didnt want to lose him either... :c
Is the game just trying to screw me to make me pay? I had 100% success of not failing, and the game still took my rat....its just not fair.
Please tell me there is something that can be done about this. Can I contact some game dev about this to get my rat back? i feel so cheated...
edited by Conker on 6/16/2014
I believe originally the rat was not get backable. People requested, begged, pleaded, offered first born and so on. So the fate option was added. The fate option is fate locked as it's a cheat. It's an acknowledgement you're playing outside the storyline.
So it's not a trick to make you pay, but a begrudging sighed 'if you have to go against the story', you can, but you have to make an aware choice.
Basically this is one of the sad storylines of FL - where even winning is bitter sweet. FL does this to you now and then - I find it makes all the choices more valuable, as it means sometimes there is no right one, no perfect outcome, no way to win (I will not make a Star Trek reference here) - and if you don't use the wiki, you don't know which of these these'll be. Other people hate it.
edited by babelfishwars on 6/16/2014
it's not exactly an unfair exchange? stats-wise, you probably have enough resources to buy a better dangerous pet(or a job-related pet) by the time you beat the big-rat plot. and if you don't kill the big-rat, he/it can be useful for obtaining certain materials if i remember correctly.
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"My little China girl/You shouldn't mess with me/I'll ruin everything you are/I'll give you television/I'll give you eyes of blue/I'll give you man who wants to rule the world"
- The Goblin King.
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