Powered by Jitbit .Net Forum free trial version.

HomeFallen London » The Bazaar

This is the place to discuss playing the game. Find tips, debate the best places to find certain items and share advice.

Grinding for the Un-Maxed Player Messages in this topic - RSS

Roas
Roas
Posts: 3

5/18/2014
I have done some grinding with a character who is not yet maxed but when I looked around this forum I noticed that all of the comprehensive calculations and analysis where for capped players. I would guess that many players have a Un-Maxed Player (maybe an alt) so this seems a little strange.

In this post I will look at one small situation: grinding echos through casing. The character in question grinds casing using their gang of hoodlums or well-planned villainy. Then the casing is converted to Antique Mysteries and then sold.

I wrote a calculator that finds the average echos per action of a character (capped or uncapped) who is grinding echos through casing. Here is the link: http://benjaminhelkey.weebly.com/grinding-echos-through-casing.html. (I don't know if/how I can post the calculator to this site)

Example:


Has anyone else thought about grinding with an Un-Maxed Character?

  • edited by Roas on 5/18/2014
  • +1 link
    Gillsing
    Gillsing
    Posts: 1207

    5/22/2014
    I have posted these numbers elsewhere, but why not here as well? End result is 178 ppa. I stopped counting when the low probability yielded so low ppa that it wouldn't be accounted for due to rounding.

    Interview the Department of _______ staff (100% at Watchful 177 apparently): Investigating... +4 CP, 53 x Cryptic Clue (1.06 Echoes)
    Raid a Message-drop: 70% chance of 270 x Cryptic Clue, 30% risk of Suspicion +1 CP

    0.7 x (4 x 1.06 + 5.4) / (4 + 1) = 1.3496 Echoes/Action
    0.21 x (5 x 1.06 + 5.4) / (5 + 2) = 0.321 Echoes/Action
    0.063 x (7 x 1.06 + 5.4) / (7 + 3) = 0.080766 Echoes/Action
    0.0189 x (8 x 1.06 + 5.4) / (8 + 4) = 0.021861 Echoes/Action
    0.00567 x (9 x 1.06 + 5.4) / (9 + 5) = 0.0060507 Echoes/Action
    Total: 1.7792777 Echoes/Action ~178 ppa

    Depending on what you usually do you may want to account for getting rid of Suspicion from all those 30% failures.

    I enjoyed an even better 198 ppa by 'dealing with mirror-smugglers' in the third coil of the Labyrinth of Tigers (100% at Dangerous 180, apparently), and then using The Hunt is On! to kill the goat demon in the Flit. But after "A night for escapes" my making progress in the Labyrinth of Tigers hit 13, and I was 'under orders' and "The third coil" storylet disappeared. So no more The Hunt is On! +3 CP together with 108 x Rostygold for me. Not unless that storylet is somehow accessible again when I return from the fourth coil. But that would be unprecedented. Right now I wish I hadn't progressed so soon.

  • edited by Gillsing on 5/22/2014
  • +2 link
    xKiv
    xKiv
    Posts: 902

    5/23/2014
    @Gillsing - I am pretty sure your math is incorrect - you are computing the average ppa of an entire run, irrespective of how many actions it takes. Exxagerated example of what's wrong with that:
    Let's say a year has 365 days. Let's split that in two "runs" - one 364 days long with a gain of 728 "coins" (two per day), the other 1 day long with a gain of 1 coin. This repeats every year, so they each have equal probability of happening: 50%.
    By your "maths", your average coins per day = 0.5*2+0.5*1 = 1.5.
    But it's actually (728*0.5+1*0.5)/(364*0.5+1*0.5)=(728+1)/(365)=1.99.

    In the case of uni-flit, you want
    ( -- total echoes gained over X actions
    0.7 x (4 x 1.06 + 5.4) +
    0.21 x (5 x 1.06 + 5.4) +
    0.063 x (7 x 1.06 + 5.4) +
    0.0189 x (8 x 1.06 + 5.4) +
    0.00567 x (9 x 1.06 + 5.4)
    )
    /
    ( -- and here's how you get X, which is expected number of actions taken for some unknown amount of (successful) attempts
    0.7 x (4 + 1) +
    0.21 x (5 + 2) +
    0.063 x (7 + 3) +
    0.0189 x (8 + 4) +
    0.00567 x (9 + 5)
    )
    = 1.71848839... echo/action (compare to your result of 1.7792777)

    Except you should also account for unsuccessful attempts, which means also calculating:
    A1 = # of actions spent on "unsuccessful" attempts = (1-(0.7+0.21+0.063+0.0189+0.00567))*(9+5)
    A2 = # of those that were spent in uni = (1-(0.7+0.21+0.063+0.0189+0.00567))*(9)
    P1 = how many echoes you got from *those* = A2*1.06
    And then you add P1 to nominator and A1 to denominator
    = 1.712549...

    And then the only thing you know that the correct answer is somewhere between those two numbers (the first one is too high because it ignores some failures, and the second is too low because it ignores that those failures don't set you back all the way to zero). Which is cool, because the difference between them isn't even an entire ppa.

    --
    https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
    +2 link
    Gillsing
    Gillsing
    Posts: 1207

    5/22/2014
    Valerio De Camillis wrote:
    Is the goat demon in the Flit the best use for The Hunt Is On... ?
    Yeah, I 'only' got to 193 ppa for killing the rat-brigands. The goat demon gives Wounds +2 CP on failure instead of just +1 CP, but given the amount of actions it takes for each cycle, that difference ends up being rather inconsequential. (The Wounds/Action down there is total wounds, not the difference between the goat demon and the rat brigands. Since the total wounds ended up being inconsequential I didn't even bother doing that calculation for the rats.)


    Kill the Rat-Brigands: The Hunt is On! 9
    15 x 108 Rostygold + 810 Primordial Shrieks or The Hunt is On! -9 CP and +1 Wounds

    0.7 x (15 x 1.08 + 16.2) / (15 + 1) = 1.4175 Echoes/Action
    0.21 x (18 x 1.08 + 16.2) / (18 + 2) = 0.37422 Echoes/Action
    0.063 x (21 x 1.08 + 16.2) / (21 + 3) = 0.10206 Echoes/Action
    0.0189 x (24 x 1.08 + 16.2) / (24 + 4) = 0.028431 Echoes/Action
    0.00567 x (27 x 1.08 + 16.2) (27 + 5) = 0.008037225 Echoes/Action
    Total: 1.930248225 Echoes/Action


    Kill the Goat Demon: The Hunt is On! 11
    22 x 108 Rostygold + 1188 Primordial Shrieks or The Hunt is On! -11 CP and +2 Wounds

    0.7 x (22 x 1.08 + 23,76) / (22 + 1) = ~1.446260 Echoes/Action
    0.21 x (26 x 1.08 + 23,76) / (26 + 2) = 0.3888 Echoes/Action +0.015 Wounds/Action
    0.063 x (30 x 1.08 + 23,76) / (30 + 3) = ~0.10721 Echoes/Action ~0.007636 Wounds/Action
    0.0189 x (33 x 1.08 + 23,76) / (33 + 4) = ~0.03034 Echoes/Action ~0.00306 Wounds/Action
    0.00567 x (37 x 1.08 + 23,76) (37 + 5) = 0.0086022 Echoes/Action ~0.00108 Wounds/Action
    Total: 1.9812 Echoes/Action (~0.02678 Wounds/Action)
    +1 link
    Fhoenix
    Fhoenix
    Posts: 602

    5/19/2014
    Serious grinding tends to make an unmaxed player into a maxed player pretty fast. People just assume you are using an action that you have 100% chance of success for grinding, that is you pick the most profitable thing available to you that you can do 100% of the time.

    I actually would not recommend grinding with a Gang of Hoodlums if you have not maxed Shadowy yet, since you get Shadowy CP from every skill check, and for the Gang you will have one check per 5 actions. Much better to do the Box and get CP from every action (although more clicking that way unfortunately).

    --
    My Character
    +1 link
    Alex WasRight
    Alex WasRight
    Posts: 383

    5/19/2014
    i rarely read about anyone using casing to grind echos, it looks more useful for grinding connections or specific resources.

    i'm of the opinion that the university invesitigations/flit trick and hunter's keep(especially with the rare success reward) are still the most profitable in terms of echos/action , not including options that are not easily repeatable.

    for grinds that don't really need a skill/luck check, you could raise your pygmalion high enough in mahogany hall, so your easiest pygmalion challenge would become straight-forward. gives a half decent 1.07 echos/action AFTER you raise pygmalion high enough.

    alternatively, you could buy cheap diamonds with cryptic secrets in the sidestreet for about 1.12 echos/action profit?? i don't remember the numbers. it also has a small chance of giving an extra higher quality diamond.

    --
    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nnssGLFfPowJ:https://twitter.com/alexiskennedy/status/1166762265892311042%3Flang%3Den+&cd=2
    +1 link




    Powered by Jitbit Forum 8.0.2.0 © 2006-2013 Jitbit Software