Cedric Appleby
Posts: 121
7/7/2012
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I thought it may be a good idea to split the little debate (such as it was) that happened here off into its own thread, as I think it is an interesting question. The Revolutionaries - do they have a point?
On one hand, they're obviously not going for a civil, genteel sort of Velvet Revolution. Some of their more violent methods are, at best, questionable. Some of this is understandable, being that death is strange in the Neath; stabbing someone in the heart is far less drastic down here than on the Surface. However, the Revolutionaries cause a lot of property damage, and they're not above permanently killing people - arguably innocent people, such as Clay Men used as strikebreakers and financiers governing some kind of currency exchange mechanism with the Surface.
On the other hand, they're also the only faction that tries to do something about the absolutely brutal class divide. (Charity on part of the Church or particularly virtuous individuals doesn't work on a scale like this. And one could argue that one should never have to recourse to charity.) The Victorian society of Fallen London has its virtues, but equality, workers' rights and a fair income distribution are not among them. Mr Fires' response to strikers is to have them beaten up - and, yes, killed - by the Constables. There's no real way to adress those grievances, as the Masters control both economy and politics and have their own private military in form of the Neddy Men.
On the other other hand*, the Neath has a few... special properties that complicate the matter, such as the appetites of the Bazaar and the apparantly fundamentally malleable nature of reality in the Neath. The Masters know how to deal with this, presumbably, and the Iron Republic does not inspire confidence regarding the Revolutionaries' ability - although you could blame Hell for the latter. But then again, who says the Masters give a d--n about London's well-being? They have their own agenda, presumbably.
So... what do you think? I believe the Revolutionaries deserve support, on balance, simply because the status quo is so awful, but I'd love to hear about my fellow citizens' opinions. Revolutionaries? Masters? Neither? Don't worry, after the Revolution, you probably won't be visited by a firing squad if you express dissent.
* Not to be confused with the original hand.
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That is, in fact, a beak. Tea is difficult.
@21stCenturyBird on Twitter. -- In-game profile.
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
7/7/2012
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I believe the revolutionaries have a point, but I do not side with their methods. Nor all of their end goals. I find it's best to take a middle of the line approach: Use the revolutionaries to acquire knowledge, but stay on the good side of the law and the masters. By straddling the line, you can be in a position to see the whole picture. Once you know the truth, then you may make a decision.
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Looking for second chances to maximize your loot output from those troublesome storylets? Check out our handy gang of volunteers in this thread, or even volunteer yourself!
@Urthdigger on twitter
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/7/2012
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I find this one of the most interesting parts of era. 19th century politics are far more fascinating than 21st century politics.
The Neath's problems are not special. All complex systems have to be fed. This does not necessitate absolutism.
The other thing to remember is that the Revolutionaries are not just rebelling against the Masters, but all forms of repression and power. Nor are they all united in belief, being Anarchists, Nihilists, Communists, Populists, Socialists and Republicans(those wishing a more representative government rather than monarchy, not the American political party.)
I believe they clearly have a point and equality is something to strive for, but violence is the least effective way to accomplish this goal. But it is the most satisfying.
This is likely why the Revolutionaries of Fallen London will likely see little change to the establishment, but that isn't really the point, is it? The point is rebellion. The act of rebelling is a way to cope with the madness and melancholy of the Neath. Some drink, other gamble and some blow up meetings of financiers. We all have to blow of a little stem now and again.
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Estelle Knoht
Posts: 1751
7/7/2012
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Hm. A 500-Persuasive check where you try to convince the Masters that love sprouts more easily when people aren't overworked, starving and generally in poverty?
A long shot... but it might work. Except if it ends up not working, the Master will never allow anyone to live a decent life in future cities.
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Estelle Knoht, a juvenile, unreliable and respectable lady.
I currently do not accept any catbox, cider, suppers, calling cards or proteges.
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Samuel Goodall
Posts: 64
7/7/2012
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The status quo is awful, additionally there is a reason the other cities have only remnants of their former glory scattered about. However the Revolutionaries, for all their good intentions are powerless brutes in this battle. Without a true leading intellect who understands the mysteries of the neath they will die, slowly but surely. We either need to side with a player who is not only capable but intelligent, or pick a capable player and lead them into glory. The way this game works it would seem that it would be easier to lead than merely help. For no matter how great one is with a sword or knife in the dark, you won't be able to turn the tide, we need to be able to supply our side with intelligence and win over followers behind our banner. A revolution can be achieved but we need a face to our cause, we need an intellect, we need inspiration. Viva la Revolution! Let's get those printers pressing dissenting thoughts.
That said, I myself am a player of the game, for the mysteries and myself. I am a scholar who seeks knowledge so I may survive the coming storm, the silence is so overwhelming it may destroy what's left of me.
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Twoflower
Posts: 264
7/7/2012
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I'm going with nay. The Bazaar has too many secrets. Even the most learned of us cannot hope to understand it. The Masters are probably the only one who can! So if they are overthrown, who will know how to control the Bazaar? Who will know what secrets lie in the heart of the Bazaar?
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Twoflower
Posts: 264
7/8/2012
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
Twoflower wrote:
I'm going with nay. The Bazaar has too many secrets. Even the most learned of us cannot hope to understand it. The Masters are probably the only one who can! So if they are overthrown, who will know how to control the Bazaar? Who will know what secrets lie in the heart of the Bazaar?
That's what Benjamin Disraeli said. Yes, I do know who he is!
The idea that only a few are wise enough to govern is not a new tool for suppressing the masses!
I doubt that Benjamin Disraeli had to deal with a sentient market run by hooded bat-creatures, and the market feeds on love written in a strange alien language.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
7/8/2012
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I will also say that membership within the Revolutionaries does not necessarily mean one is entirely sympathetic to their cause or methods.
Some merely like to be a revolutionary and could care less about actual revolution. Others could be puppets of the powers that be in disguise!
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The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
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Twoflower
Posts: 264
7/9/2012
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
Some merely like to be a revolutionary and could care less about actual revolution
If you just want to be a revolutionary to blow stuff up and kill bankers, aren't you just a common criminal with a fancier title?
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Twoflower
Posts: 264
7/9/2012
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Nigel Overstreet wrote:
Twoflower wrote:
f you just want to be a revolutionary to blow stuff up and kill bankers, aren't you just a common criminal with a fancier title?
You're a common sociopath with a fancy title.
I believe we call these people "politicians". 
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