streetfelineblue
Posts: 1459
12/28/2012
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Confirmed, Connected: Criminals from the Strongbox storylet caps at 10.
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Link to Ocelot's Enigma Ambition hint page; PM for clarification. No direct solutions provided.
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Aximillio
Posts: 1251
12/29/2012
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streetfelineblue wrote:
Confirmed, Connected: Criminals from the Strongbox storylet caps at 10.
No higher than 10, so you can get to 11 with it.
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Nagato-01
Posts: 92
1/9/2013
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Byron Man wrote:
Adding my sightly shady way:
WARNING: THIS USER'S MATHEMATICS SKILL SUCKS. THERE MAY/PROBABLY BE SEVERELY INCORRECT CALCULATIONS.
Grind using the "All this blood has got you thinking about death" invite option in the lodgings.
It's a luck challenge that is "A sure thing. Or is it?" which give 45 Surface Currency + 1 Scrap on a success while giving 20 Currency on a failure.
45 Surface Currency = 1.35 Echoes PLUS one Scrap
20 Surface Currency = 0.60 Echoes
Your friend doesn't have to accept as the accept bonus for you is just a watchful increase.
Pessimistically speaking, if you consider that the storylet has a 75% success chance, it's about 116 pence per action.... (116.25 actually)
But! Don't forget the Certifiable Scraps gains.
A 75% success rate would mean every 213 actions get you 160 scraps, which is enough to exchange for a 62.5 Echoes item (Parabola-Linen, Diary of The Dead)....
116p X 213 actions = 24708p (247 Echoes and 8 pence)
If you add a action to exchange that 160 scrap to a tier 6 item (62.5 Echoes)....
116p X 213 actions + 6250p x 1 action = 30958p (309 Echoes and 58 pence)
Each action = 144p Per Action
A 70% success rate would mean that...
112p X 229 actions = 25648 (238 Echoes and 56 pence)
229 actions would get 160 scraps.
112p X 229 actions + 6250p X 1 action = 31898p (318 Echoes and 98 pence)
Each action = 138p Per Action
I think my calculations are off horribly. But feel free to correct me.
Update to aforementioned loop:
I've tried this out for 60 scraps, and gotten 3020 Surface Currency. That means I got 60 successes and 16 failures, which gives a 78.9% success rate. I'll be running it to get 160 Scraps in a while, but let's just assume that the success rate is 80% (because I'm lazy).
200 Actions will give you 160 Scraps, and 8000 Surface Currency (45 x 160 + 20 x 40). The Surface Currency can be sold for 240 Echoes, and the 160 Scraps can be exchanged (using 1 Action) to give a 62.5 Echoes item.
Thus, the expected yield will be 1.50 Echoes/Action.
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
2/10/2013
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Does converting mourning candles to patent scrutinizers give a better echoes/action ratio? Is it roughly breakeven? Considering the success bonuses and occasional rare successes, that is.
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
2/10/2013
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Considering that it costs you connections, I don't think it is cost-efficient.
What do you get on Rare Successes? The wiki seems to be missing this (or inply that you get less on rare, than on normal)
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
2/10/2013
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Whatever it is, it probably is worth 62.5 echoes. Connected: Revolutionaries is one of the few connections might be a problem, actually. Might just be best to sell the candles.
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Tesuji
Posts: 161
2/10/2013
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Spacemarine9 wrote:
Does converting mourning candles to patent scrutinizers give a better echoes/action ratio?
Better than what?
If you're asking if it's a worthwhile way to make money, the answer is probably not.
Using conversion to make money really means doing a lot of them and counting on getting an average number of rare successes. Generally speaking, a normal success yields 1E on a Tier 3 -> 4 conversion, 2E on a Tier 4 -> 5 conversion. At a 50-50 chance, you'd be far better off spending those actions doing almost anything else, if this were the only reward.
Rare successes, however, are generally 25E for Tier 3 -> 4, and ~62.5E for Tier 4 -> 5 (varies, because some yield connection items). Even at only a 5% chance of a rare success, that would make this worth doing.
... except when you figure in the connection cost.
A Tier 3 -> 4 conversion costs 5 CPs of a connection; a Tier 4 -> 5 conversion costs 20.
Luminosity requires Connected: Revolutionaries, which is one of the harder ones to gain. Unless you happen to have a large amount of that connection and have decided you don't want it any more, converting Luminosity items probably won't be worth it.
The only conversions I'd really consider worthwhile for grinding purposes would be Rumour (it requires Society, which is the cheapest connection to raise, and a trip through Hunter's Keep can generate a lot of Incendiary Gossip) and potentially Nostalgia (Bohemian is the second-cheapest connection, but Visions of the Surface aren't really good targets for grinding, so this is more something you do if you happen to have a large surplus on hand, rather than something you set out to make money with).
Even with these, keep in mind that this is completely luck-based, on a low-chance/high-reward basis.
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
2/10/2013
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Better than just selling them after getting them from the Affair of the Box
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Ratgames
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
2/10/2013
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Even if we assume the player always gets a success and value the connections at 2 pence per CP (with revolutionaries it'll likely cost you more in terms of effort), it's still only marginally more profitable than getting the candles in the first place. That said... the most valuable currency in the Neath is curiosity, and nobody yet seems to know what the rare success is...
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
2/10/2013
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The rare success item for Mourning Candles is a Searing Enigma. I got a couple when converting them up during my big old high end equipment grind. It was awfully rare, however. I think I got the same number of Searing Enigmas (if not more) from converting Broken Giants into Cellars of Wine, and I converted those much less frequently than the candles. That said, somebody else on the forum had much better luck with it, saying that you'd get one about 25% of the time. So I suppose the ability to make a decent amount of money off of your mourning candle conversion party is dependent on your luck.
edited by Sara Hysaro on 2/10/2013
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Aximillio
Posts: 1251
2/10/2013
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Another thing to take into account is the fact that Patent Scrutinizers sell for 12.60 €, 10p more than other t5 items.
This means you'll always gain 50p, usually 250p at the cost of 20cp in revolutionaries, not counting rare successes.
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Urthdigger
Posts: 939
2/10/2013
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Hmm... you know, I was unaware of that. That's enough that, with my generous version at least, it WOULD be worth it.
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dov
Posts: 2580
2/13/2013
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First of all, this is a great thread! Kudos to all who went into the trouble of digging all this useful info.
I've been looking at the interesting suggestion of grinding via breeding Tomb-Lions.
With the help of a friend it's indeed easy to raise enough Scandal using 2 actions (+6 CP each, and scandalous equipment).
I might be missing something, but how do you then make the return trip in 2 actions? In the tomb colonies you don't have access to your lodging and the "use someone as your dupe" action. Is there an action a friend can initiate that would reduce my Scandal by 6 CP?
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Aximillio
Posts: 1251
2/13/2013
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dov wrote:
First of all, this is a great thread! Kudos to all who went into the trouble of digging all this useful info.
I've been looking at the interesting suggestion of grinding via breeding Tomb-Lions.
With the help of a friend it's indeed easy to raise enough Scandal using 2 actions (+6 CP each, and scandalous equipment).
I might be missing something, but how do you then make the return trip in 2 actions? In the tomb colonies you don't have access to your lodging and the "use someone as your dupe" action. Is there an action a friend can initiate that would reduce my Scandal by 6 CP?
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Send the invites before you visit the colonies. Sent invites can still be accepted, after all =)
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dov
Posts: 2580
2/13/2013
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Aximillio wrote:
Send the invites before you visit the colonies. Sent invites can still be accepted, after all =)
Wow. This possibility had simply never occurred to me. Thanks!
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Fhoenix
Posts: 602
3/6/2013
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So, the whole thread is busted. Did anybody do any thinking on what is a good way to make money atm? With all the rebalances I find myself in a sudden need for around a thousand Echoes to buy things from the Bazar. My shadowy is too low now to do the Boxful of Intrigue with any reliability. And doing the Fidgeting Writer so far got me only a couple of Lens of Black Glass (and a whole lot of curses when both of them failed to bring soul)
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Devoted_pupa
Posts: 103
3/6/2013
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I'm a huge fan of Hunter's keep. I made my overgoat there.
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Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
3/7/2013
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Devoted_pupa wrote:
I'm a huge fan of Hunter's keep. I made my overgoat there.
Ditto. Especially now that it gives tier 3 rewards.
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Endy
Posts: 278
3/7/2013
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I went back to the Iron Republic. Similar concept, no distractions which I honestly find kill your earnings more than anything else.
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Through the darker shadows.
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Corran
Posts: 401
3/23/2013
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Update 06-12-2013: 22 full runs and not a single Searing Enigma... It could be bad luck or things might have changed. Memory of Distant Shores went up a tiny fraction. Return for these runs: 1.52512987 per action.
Update 03-09-2013: I did another 23 full runs and the result was really disappointing. I only got two Searing Enigmas (I wouldn't be surprised if the odds for these have been decreased around the time they changed to the broad chances). Memory of Distant Shores stayed almost the same, tiny decrease. This brought the returns for these runs to 1.677950311 per action and in turn pulled down the average quite a bit.
Update 20-07-2013: Forgot to update this earlier. Did 115 full runs now; my luck turned quite a bit and the echos per actions went down from 2.02 to 1.94 cause of even less Searing Enigmas.
Update 30-04-2013: Found the exact Watchful stats. Added link to Stylish post. Went from 51 to 74 full runs. Echos per action went down 0.07 (very few Searing Enigmas this time).
Update 30-03-2013: Rewrote a few bits and updated stats; went from 36 to 51 full runs. Echos per action went up a fraction.
Colinsapherson did a write up for Hunter's Keep some time ago but I felt the need to do another one. The rebalances have had some impact on Hunter's Keep as well. You need Watchful 187 for a 100% chance on the Examine the books - Look for something significant storylet and Watchful 193 for a 100% chance on the Take your net to the well storylet. Note that you get a Sudden Insight after every run so you can use one on the well and come out even.
The echos per action for full runs (174 now) comes to: 1.850808703.
(Full runs are the ones where I could do the Take your net to the well storylet.)
The long, step by step explanation:
Obviously you need a ship to sail to the island; you won't make much money on the way there and how long it will take is quite variable. So it's best to stay as long as possible on the island.
Once on the island you need a Stone Tentacle-Key if you don't have one yet. It will take one 30 action run and one 28 action run to aquire it. Details of this (and all of Hunter's Keep) can be found on Wikidot.
When you land on the island the first storylet is mandatory and gets you 1.10 echos. After that the best option is the Exploring the island - Have a look in the boathouse storylet; it gets you 1.10 echos. Then as soon as your Time Passing reaches 3 go for the Look around the house - What's in the attic? storylet; it gets you 1.15 echos.
Once Time Passing hits 7 you can do the Examine the books - Look for something significant storylet. A regular result will get you 1.08 echos and a rare result gets you 2.5 echos.
The very first run you won't have Dramatic Tension so you can keep doing this till Time Passing hits 10. After the first time you can get the Stone Tentacle-Key at Time Passing 9 or take your net for the first full run if you do have the key.
The run ends with the A game of charades storylet which does not give any reward and then the Lucy/Cynthia/Phoebe finishes her story storylet which gives you 2.5 echos. Your choice on the A game of charades storylet decides which sister's storylet you will get. See the Wikidot for details but I'll say that picking the Furies gives you 5 Dangerous cp and 1 Nightmare cp. Picking Hecate will give you 1 cp in Seeing through the Eyes of Icarus on Phoebe's storylet.
So, once you have the Stone Tentacle-Key and Dramatic Tension we can do full runs. For the best result this is the order to do them in:
- 11 times the Talk to Lucy - Ask her to take a stroll with you storylet, this will give you 1.16 echos per action (no skill test; always succeeds).
- 14 times the Examine the books - Look for something significant storylet (this is a Watchful challenge). Chance of a rare success: 10.51%.
- 1 time the Take your net to the well storylet, note that you do this at Time Passing 9, so you don't do the 14 actions above all at once but break for this one. This storylet nets (pun intended) you either a 1,000 glim (worth 10 echos) or a rare succes of a Searing Enigma (worth 62.5 echos) and 2 cp of Wounds. Chance of a rare success: 17.82%. It should be noted however that as Colinsapherson said, the law of large numbers isn't working here yet so this chance is probably not quite correct.
- 1 time the A game of charades storylet for the nice round sum of 0 echos.
- 1 time the Lucy/Cynthia/Phoebe finishes her story storylet for 2.5 echos.
Obviously the trip to the island and the first run without Dramatic Tension means that your 'real' income per action will be lower but as those are variable I've left them out of my calculations.
If you want things to be even easier you might want to use my user style that gives the 'correct' options a gold button. You can find a post about that on the next page or just go to the post directly by clicking here.
A tip for anyone wanting to track their earnings; at first I was stupid enough to note down every single earning till it finally struck me that it's a lot easier to just make a note of the amount of Whispered Secrets, Unusual Love Stories, etc. at the start of my first run and then look at the amounts when leaving the island. As long as you have no failures you can then easily work out the numbers in Excel. I can put the sheet up on Google Docs if anyone wants it.
edited by Corran on 12/6/2013
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