babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
4/14/2014
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Dawson wrote:
the ever-Spockean Babelfishwars
I am very happy.
You have made my Monday. I'm going to sit here thinking about hugging Nimoy.
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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xKiv
Posts: 846
4/14/2014
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Dawson wrote:
There is most certainly nothing wrong with being absurdly lucky or unlucky on the programming end of things—and even if there is something wrong with the RNG program at the theoretical level, the point is still moot as it relates to the topic at hand; since your "good luck" or "ill luck" in reality overlaps 1-to-1 and onto with the results returned by the game, I don't see how it matters much whether the RNG literally simulates the condition of absolute randomosity in reality. As long as it's a comparable simulation, the task of the RNG is being carried out effectively.
It doesn't matter when you are doing randomized interactive story.
It begins to matter when you are doing a game, because players want to be treated fairly (counterpoint: fallen london is supposed to be about making the characters miserable, and since we identify with our characters, it's about making *us* miserable too)..
It matters a lot when you start showing exact percentages, because if you aren't really careful, you are promising something you can't guarantee. (but this is more of an argument against showing exact percentages than anything else).
Not to be antagonistic to xKiv, since he hardly deserves it,
I first read that as ".. he already deserves it,". It was confusing.
but e.g. the point about 'there's always someone better' is literally a self-defeating non-argument. I'm also not sure how the impossibility of human omniscience is relevant to anything.
I saw it as relevant as a tangentially supporting point to being silly while defending my "honor" against "accusations" of maybe thinking I am a better programmer than someone whose work I have never witnessed.
(I could have also just said that I am sure FBG can run circles around me in some other programming topic)
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
4/14/2014
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xKiv wrote:
I saw it as relevant as a tangentially supporting point to being silly while defending my "honor" against "accusations" of maybe thinking I am a better programmer than someone whose work I have never witnessed.
You, person, have no honour! You spelled it ALL WRONG. *flaps glove all over the place* HA! Have at you! *flails sword everywhere* Tomorrow! Bring your goat! And a second goat! Let us decide this the old fashioned way.
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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xKiv
Posts: 846
4/14/2014
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babelfishwars wrote:
Bring your goat! And a second goat!
Phew. For a second I was worried you would want me to bring *my* second goat. Because, I must admit, I only own the one. And it's not even über.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
4/14/2014
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xKiv wrote:
babelfishwars wrote:
Bring your goat! And a second goat!
Phew. For a second I was worried you would want me to bring *my* second goat. Because, I must admit, I only own the one. And it's not even über.
I'm going to have to 'borrow' some goats. I have none. Much sadness. If no one 'lends' me any, I'll bleat till your one backs away disconcerted.
Edit: forgot the insinuation quotes on lends. I mean 'has any around for me to nick', obv.
edited by babelfishwars on 4/14/2014
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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xKiv
Posts: 846
4/14/2014
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babelfishwars wrote:
I'm going to have to 'borrow' some goats. I have none. Much sadness. If no one 'lends' me any, I'll bleat till your one backs away disconcerted.
Edit: forgot the insinuation quotes on lends. I mean 'has any around for me to nick', obv.
edited by babelfishwars on 4/14/2014
That should give me some time to look for a sword. Carrow's doesn't seem to carry any.
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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cinderfallen
Posts: 16
4/14/2014
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Meanwhile, I'll go head to head with all *counts* 8 people who downvoted me during the course of conversation. En garde! *Pulls out a derringer*
edited by cinderfallen on 4/14/2014
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
4/15/2014
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A side-note: you're assuming that it's unreasonable for a Master Thief to occasionally fail a simple heist, or to have a run of bad luck. It isn't. It would be unreasonable to expect an individual to always succeed at a task, regardless of their skill level; hell, most humans can't even put one foot in front of the other successfully 100% of the time.
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
4/15/2014
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xKiv wrote:
That should give me some time to look for a sword. Carrow's doesn't seem to carry any.
I have a few, but only in real life. Not sure how I get them into digital format. Will ponder this one.
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Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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cinderfallen
Posts: 16
4/16/2014
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Snowskeeper wrote:
A side-note: you're assuming that it's unreasonable for a Master Thief to occasionally fail a simple heist, or to have a run of bad luck. It isn't. It would be unreasonable to expect an individual to always succeed at a task, regardless of their skill level; hell, most humans can't even put one foot in front of the other successfully 100% of the time.
Nope, I'm saying if a "Master Thief" is failing to open a simple lock 10 times in a row, maybe she shouldn't be called a master thief.
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Snowskeeper
Posts: 575
4/16/2014
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cinderfallen wrote:
Snowskeeper wrote:
A side-note: you're assuming that it's unreasonable for a Master Thief to occasionally fail a simple heist, or to have a run of bad luck. It isn't. It would be unreasonable to expect an individual to always succeed at a task, regardless of their skill level; hell, most humans can't even put one foot in front of the other successfully 100% of the time.
Nope, I'm saying if a "Master Thief" is failing to open a simple lock 10 times in a row, maybe she shouldn't be called a master thief.
I'm saying that if your Shadowy is at a level where you could reasonably be considered a Master Thief, a Shadowy task requiring you to pick a simple lock is either going to be a White Straightforward task (IE 100% success rate), or the statistical likelihood of you failing it ten times in a row will be so astronomically unlikely that it isn't worth discussing. Hyperbole is not a good way to win debates like this one.
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S.F., a midnight midnighter and invisible eminence. Impossible to locate them, personally, but there are dead drops and agents.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
4/16/2014
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babelfishwars wrote:
I have a few, but only in real life. Not sure how I get them into digital format. Will ponder this one.
I have held a sword (used to belong to a great-grandfather), once, 20 years ago. It was short, dirty, and heavy.
Umbrellas at six paces?
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
4/16/2014
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xKiv wrote:
Umbrellas at six paces? I SHALL WIN. Dad gave me a golf umbrella of golf umbrellas. The kind Spacemarine9 would use in the game of games. I'm embarrassed to use it in the rain as it can cover an entire pavement and thus as I'm not 6'6"+ has a tendency to block the way for anyone coming the opposite direction. It's a monstrosity. I can probably thwop you with it at 8 paces. Sod 6.
I like winning. Excellent.
edited by babelfishwars on 4/16/2014
--
Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
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cinderfallen
Posts: 16
4/17/2014
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Snowskeeper wrote:
cinderfallen wrote:
Snowskeeper wrote:
A side-note: you're assuming that it's unreasonable for a Master Thief to occasionally fail a simple heist, or to have a run of bad luck. It isn't. It would be unreasonable to expect an individual to always succeed at a task, regardless of their skill level; hell, most humans can't even put one foot in front of the other successfully 100% of the time.
Nope, I'm saying if a "Master Thief" is failing to open a simple lock 10 times in a row, maybe she shouldn't be called a master thief.
I'm saying that if your Shadowy is at a level where you could reasonably be considered a Master Thief, a Shadowy task requiring you to pick a simple lock is either going to be a White Straightforward task (IE 100% success rate), or the statistical likelihood of you failing it ten times in a row will be so astronomically unlikely that it isn't worth discussing. Hyperbole is not a good way to win debates like this one.
Not cool constructing straw man arguments either. And not always 100%. It's usually a green 92% - 96%? Something like that? But there are those challenges that are in the 75 - 85% that are more likely to get really nasty streaks with. I've literally had that happen to me, and so have many other people on this forum--it's not an uncommon experience. People bond over it on the "What's the worst thing you failed at" thread. Check it out.
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xKiv
Posts: 846
4/17/2014
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babelfishwars wrote:
xKiv wrote:
Umbrellas at six paces? I SHALL WIN. Dad gave me a golf umbrella of golf umbrellas. The kind Spacemarine9 would use in the game of games. I'm embarrassed to use it in the rain as it can cover an entire pavement and thus as I'm not 6'6"+ has a tendency to block the way for anyone coming the opposite direction. It's a monstrosity. I can probably thwop you with it at 8 paces. Sod 6.
I like winning. Excellent.
edited by babelfishwars on 4/16/2014
I think I will need a nuclear umbrella ...
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https://www.fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/xKiv - a witchful, percussive, dangermous and shadowry scholar of coexplodence, hopsidirean, and walker of fallen kitties.
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