Rinsik
Posts: 37
1/22/2014
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Hello,
I just got Archaeologist 3 after a few Thieves’s Caches expeditions. I am very far from The Tomb of Seven (currently Watchful 97 and not in a hurry to grow), but I see that there is also the Shrine of the Deep Blue Heaven. I haven't gone for it because with <60% in the mid-difficulty approach it's too expensive in second chances, but with the safer approach I may be overrun by a rival before completion. And from the wiki I haven't been able to decipher the possible profit that expedition...
So my question is: is it worth going for it at the slowest progress speed (100% success), even if I probably have to spend something against my rivals? Should I just wait until My Watchful is about 135 (80% success in mid-speed)? Or do I forget about it and do the Tomb (for the Correspondence Stones) when it's safe enough to do so?
(Oh, that's three questions...)
Thanks!
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Pyrodinium
Posts: 639
1/22/2014
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It's better safe than sorry so I suggest the 100% success rate action unless you got a lot of expensive items such as Intriguing Gossip to stop your rivals. I believe I finished both the Tomb of Seven and the Shrine of the Deep Blue Heaven with 80-90 Watchful (buffed). I also finished the Tomb first to get the Stones to access the University. The University offers lots of activities that train Watchful (although I'm currently in the Flit doing ahem... acts of particular character). I've also heard that there's a non-Menace punishing Whispered Secrets storylet somewhere in the University so you might want to take a look at that.
Honestly after finishing the Tomb, the Shrine seems to be a letdown. I believe the Shrine is too slow compared to the Thieves cache and it gave me a treasure that I can find within the shorter expedition anyways.
If you like the thrill of having competitors then the Shrine might be good for you. If you want fast cash and Watchful then do thieve's cache or you can join me at the Flit to go shopping on people's homes.
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Trodgmey
Posts: 164
1/26/2014
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Fhoenix wrote:
Trodgmey wrote:
I disagree with many of the above thoughts on the value of the shrine (I collected data on a couple dozen loops, and the mean echo payout was in the 62-65 range, although there is the odd 6 echo one that's a real let down). It's possibly my favorite grind in the game.
Well, first of all, it's simply not reliable. Unless you are doing many many loops, there is no guarantee that it will average at that value. Second, can you share with us how many actions it took for you to do the full run? And third, converting supplies does not give you CP and failing expedition actions will cost you supplies, so IMHO the Expedition itself is not a good way to train stats. Can't comment on Corpsecage. But by leaving London you will lose on the opportunity to draw cards, so there is drawback to going to the island too.
I like the Expedition myself and I am doing runs of it right now. I am not saying it's a bad piece of content.
The numbers are complicated, because there's multiple loops involved, but I put a post with the general gist under this topic:
http://community.failbettergames.com/topic4344-grinding-watchful-and-persuasive.aspx
I typically tack on a few loops at Hunter's Keep too, both for the menace reduction and the echo grinding.
And yes, if you're going to grind it, you'll need to do a dozen or so loops to make sure it averages out. There are better echo grinds, but I don't know of an actually reliable way to get high level items like Night Whispers.
As to leaving London, it's true that you miss out on cards, but I probably have an odd affection for Unterzee travel...
edited by Trodgmey on 1/26/2014
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Spacemarine9
Posts: 2234
6/1/2014
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The difference is only 50p, though; you still get the Primeval Hint, just not the Ostentatious Diamond. It's not really that big of a deal, but extra cash is always good.
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Ridiculus Undarke
Posts: 48
6/1/2014
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I did the Shrine expedition only once, and got an Eyeless Skull. But perhaps even more intriguing was a paragraph of text with some very important descriptions.
Lumyire wrote:
BTW, the fate locked Uttermost Wind is not worth doing at all. The standard reward is at most an 12.5 E item.
I went seeking a Temple of Uttermost Wind once, and found something that almost gave me as much echoes as all my other items at the time combined would... so I wouldn't call it useless by any means. Not to mention the pieces of information there...
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Sara Hysaro
Moderator
Posts: 4514
6/2/2014
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It has a smaller range, looking at the wiki. The 2 Night-Whispers go from 140-158 (159?), while Airag + Parabola-Linen is just 160. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more common in the Expeditions that allow a higher Unpredictable Treasure value.
Edit: Well, more common in that it has a wider range than just 1 value. In practice the full range drawn upon could be wider, which might hurt the odds. I'm not sure.
Edit 2: I'm actually about to start running some Expeditions on my main and alt pretty soon. I want to have 10 bottles of Airag to complete my Wines collection, and Delmar wants to bring his Watchful up from 141 to 200. I could record what I get and provide more data for the reward probabilities.
edited by Sara Hysaro on 6/2/2014
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