Richard
Posts: 304
1/10/2014
|
As requested by Alexis, a new thread to discuss the Noman content. Here's what Alexis said:
There is an Arty Point behind the Noman content; there are interesting things to be said, I think, about whether I succeeded or failed in that effect.
And here's what I'd posted in the other thread (other people had commented too, but it's up to them to decide whether they want to copy their posts over here):
Suitov wrote:
I don't think the Noman is made to last. Isn't there a warning when you get it?
Indeed it isn't; indeed there is. And pretty much all of the noman's text (right down to its epically-long item description) reinforces the point that it's going to die, not just sometime, but soon.
Regarding "nice little earner" in a previous post - I think that's unfair. The fact you can spend expensive items on a futile attempt to keep it alive is artistically interesting, and I wouldn't look for any more sinister motivation than that.
For example, right now, it really wants me to give it a pail of snow. But I could use that pail of snow, via a monocle and whatnot, to get myself a nice little hide-away by the seaside. In real life, would I sell my home, if it got just one more week of time for someone that I care about? I have absolutely no idea, and I honestly don't want to think about it, but the storyline forces me to. This is a Good Thing.
What does seem a little cruel is the way that the combined effects of randomness appear to mean you can throw away numerous expensive items, and end up winning no extra time at all. Which, yes, is tragically the way it works in real life, but we expect fiction to be more clearly-defined than life is. The piquancy comes from thinking the noman's fate is in my hands; it loses its effectiveness if too much is down to "the bludgeonings of chance".
NB. I've carefully said "appear" in the previous sentence, because none of us actually knows how it's all going to end. I wouldn't be at all surprised if more options show up as Noman's Friend dwindles towards zero.
Cheers
Richard
Edited to change title - I'd given it the same name as another thread.
edited by Richard on 1/12/2014
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Alexander Feld
Posts: 348
1/10/2014
|
I'm going to do everything I can to make sure my Noman survives until the end of February; all I want is for him to live to see sunlight. Last year, there was that one glorious moment when light shone again in the Neath, and it completely passed me by. One day, I may achieve the immortality needed to walk the surface again, but the Noman does not have that luxury. I feel very strongly that he should see sunlight before he dies. I owe him that much.
--
I am a star-gazer, story-eater, and a smelter of words.
I filch hidden things from hidden places, to hide once more in my dark cabinet of curiosities
Alexander Feld, the mad, damned, lord of seekers.
|
|
|
+7
link
|
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
1/10/2014
|
There's nothing sadder in a parent's life than when their children melt and have to be shaken out of the parlour rug into a bucket.
(A sideline of speculation: I wonder if this is in any way designed in hope that we'll lower our Quirks, so that they'll fall below the caps, and the higher levels can be reserved for story content. ...nahhh, probably not.)
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
|
|
|
+6
link
|
Alexis Kennedy
Posts: 1374
1/10/2014
|
Richard wrote:
I don't think that's quite what he meant... I just read it as saying that the author is dead (metaphorically!), and so he's not going to explain what his intentions actually were.
This! I just don't want to be all up in your shit while you're talking about my shit.
(edit: bite me, curse-words filter)
edited by Alexis on 1/10/2014
|
|
|
+5
link
|
Ewan C.
Posts: 675
1/11/2014
|
WARNING: the current Noman text says that it will take 5 Taste of Lacre, but in fact it takes 6. This is a slight issue for me given that I only *had* 6, but I figure I can at least warn others...
|
|
|
+4
link
|
Lady Red
Posts: 517
1/11/2014
|
There is a very, very beautiful typo in the Noman text:
Creating a Norman will become rapidly more expensive as January wears on.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Lady~Red
|
|
|
+3
link
|
Nigel Overstreet
Posts: 1220
1/11/2014
|
HinterDemGlas wrote:
although I, in my function as the irreparable idealist... Oh, honey...
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
or if desperately trying to spend as much time with our Noman, in the mistaken assumption that there's some sort of narrative payout that can be achieved other than the inevitability of death and grief, is in itself the intended artistic conclusion. I'm working under the assumption that the payout is grief and death, but the joy comes from the journey, exploration and awe of discovery.
In both this narrative and life in general.
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
It's entirely possible that Norman is the funniest name in the world. More than Nigel Snow-verstreet?
--
The Romantic Egotist: Most Hedonistic Man in All of Fallen London
Are you or someone you know Overgoated? Please, let me know!
Cider Club
|
|
|
+3
link
|
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
1/11/2014
|
It's entirely possible that Norman is the funniest name in the world.
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
1/12/2014
|
Richard wrote:
For a rather more low-brow reference, he reminds me of Commander Data out of Star Trek. He seems to have been created with a fully-formed intelligence, and our mission is to teach him a little about human emotion.
I also want to hug Data. The similarity is strong.
--
Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Elnara
Posts: 137
1/13/2014
|
I wish the prices of things would stop changing without warning! I had decided to buy a Noman and now the price has doubled and I can't afford both that and the lodging I wanted.
--
http://fallenlondon.storynexus.com/Profile/Elnara
No photographer invitations please!
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Suitov
Posts: 89
1/10/2014
|
I'm getting something out of the Noman content purely by deciding "creating a short-lived creature is cruel and I'm not going to do it", then peeping at what other people do with theirs.
--
Hello, savoury persons. Shall we become acquainted?
|
|
|
+2
link
|
RandomWalker
Posts: 948
1/10/2014
|
Without commenting about the rest of the noman content (I can't do so properly until I buy one and I want to wait until the next time the healer comes before I get my mayfly, and it'll give me time to farm another tear), I would like to apologise for the 'nice little earner' comment. It was unfair and presumptuous of me.
|
|
|
+2
link
|
Diptych
Administrator
Posts: 3493
1/10/2014
|
I'm feeling rather torn. I don't know whether working through the Noman content will lead to some interesting artistic conclusion - and so, if our Noman melts before we've reached that conclusion, we've effectively 'lost' and miss out - or if desperately trying to spend as much time with our Noman, in the mistaken assumption that there's some sort of narrative payout that can be achieved other than the inevitability of death and grief, is in itself the intended artistic conclusion.
I've really enjoyed the content we've seen so far, so I'm not too terribly upset with either option - even by writing it down here, I'm making a certain degree of peace with the possibility that this is all a beautiful, tragic farce. But, I have to admit, I struggle with not knowing how I should be experiencing media before I experience it. I'm not saying I'm a slave to authorial intent, but I enjoy a story more when I have some grounding going in as to what's going to happen, so I don't spend the whole time wondering if I'm experiencing it right instead of just experiencing it.
(This goes double when the content isn't necessarily linear - for instance, I once went to a sort of carnival event with lots of short shows being held in adjoining spaces. I don't know how, but I managed to arrive at every show just as it was finishing for the night, and ended up spending the better part of the night staring at empty rooms, or locked doors behind which other people were having fun. To this day, I'm not 100% sure whether or not that was actually what they intended for me to experience, but I'm sure as hell not going to one of their shows again.)
Anyhow, none of this is terribly important - Alexis has explicitly said he's going to be a closed book on this one, and I'm just one lunk among thousands. Really, I've just had a lot of Opinions about art this week! And, like I say, I'm enjoying Nomanning, and I'm sure I'll have a good time either way. I suppose I'm just pondering the role of randomness in storytelling, and how other people react to it compared to m'self. What do you reckon?
--
Sir Frederick, the Libertarian Esotericist. Lord Hubris, the Bloody Baron.
Juniper Brown, the Ill-Fated Orphan. Esther Ellis-Hall, the Fashionable Fabian.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
HinterDemGlas
Posts: 57
1/10/2014
|
I don't think it's a bug that Hedonism is the one quirk that grows by spending it... although I, in my function as the irrepairable idealist, want to say the same should be true for Magnamosity.
--
A mildmannered gentleman, back with a vengeance.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Mordaine Barimen
Posts: 670
1/10/2014
|
And next year we'll see people having saved up to feed their Noman Hesperidean Cider...
--
I'm sorry, but due to policy clarifications, I will no longer be giving detailed mechanics advice on the forums.
If you still need help, try the IRC channel.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Richard
Posts: 304
1/12/2014
|
Just a quick note to explain I've changed the title of this thread (was "Noman's Progress"). I'd stupidly given it the same name as another one, which had already been going for several days. Very sorry about that.
|
|
|
+1
link
|
babelfishwars
Administrator
Posts: 1152
1/12/2014
|
I've only had the creation event so far, but I just want to hug mine. If that isn't an option, I will be sad.
Edit: from the briefest of perusals of discussion here, Nomen makes me think (vaguely) of Flowers for Algernon.
edited by babelfishwars on 1/12/2014
--
Mars, God of Fish; Leaning Tower of Fish
|
|
|
+1
link
|
Richard
Posts: 304
1/10/2014
|
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
I don't know whether working through the Noman content will lead to some interesting artistic conclusion - and so, if our Noman melts before we've reached that conclusion, we've effectively 'lost' and miss out - or if desperately trying to spend as much time with our Noman, in the mistaken assumption that there's some sort of narrative payout that can be achieved other than the inevitability of death and grief, is in itself the intended artistic conclusion. Quite so. And for that reason I think I shouldn't say too much at the moment, in the same way that I wouldn't write a review of a play during the interval.
That's not going to stop me talking about generalities, though!
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
(This goes double when the content isn't necessarily linear - for instance, I once went to a sort of carnival event with lots of short shows being held in adjoining spaces. I don't know how, but I managed to arrive at every show just as it was finishing for the night, and ended up spending the better part of the night staring at empty rooms, or locked doors behind which other people were having fun. To this day, I'm not 100% sure whether or not that was actually what they intended for me to experience, but I'm sure as hell not going to one of their shows again.) Having seen (and reviewed) a fair few things like that in my time, I'd say it's very unlikely it's what they intended. Interactive theatre poses logistical challenges which are every bit as great as the artistic ones. Predictably enough, companies often put more thought into the artistry than the logistics, leading to experiences like yours.
My own opinion, which is by no means universally held, is that it's the creator's obligation to guide the participant towards a take-away message - or one of a range of messages, if it's a branching narrative. So, it's fine to leave the participant feeling frustrated or angry or sad, but only if you've done it on purpose. A few years ago in the UK, it was briefly fashionable for theatre-makers to create some kind of environment, throw an audience into it, and essentially just see what happened; that was always abdication of responsibility, in my view.
Sir Frederick Tanah-Chook wrote:
Anyhow, none of this is terribly important - Alexis has explicitly said he's going to be a closed book on this one, and I'm just one lunk among thousands. Oh, never think that. It took me a long time to learn this, but I promise you it's true - the vast majority of experienced creatives would far rather hear a debate about their work, than just have people tell them it's great. (Obviously, debating it and concluding it's great is an even better outcome!)
Cheers
Richard
|
|
|
+1
link
|